mercenaries (8 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

Rab I don´t enjoy going through these debates because I went through them a million times and with zero success. If you like to think that way it´s your problem, all I can say you are blinded with your love towards the clubs or Del Piero, I don´t really know what is it. But you are wrong. Just as I prepared to post my views, BBILAN explained it all and I must say it´s perfect.

You went through them million times, yet you only managed to convince yourself and no one else.

Don't really come around here and lie with this propaganda saying they were forced to leave. Don't invent stuff. This is Juventus forums where people come to learn thing or two and know some facts about their club.

So when you say they were forced, explain how/sources and etc. If you don't want, then fine, but then again don't post If you don't care.

As for me being blinded, I haven't called you names and I'm respecting you so far, so I think you should do the same, know whom you're calling blinded fan before writing that....eh?

 

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[Marc]

You went through them million times, yet you only managed to convince yourself and no one else.

Don't really come around here and lie with this propaganda saying they were forced to leave. Don't invent stuff. This is Juventus forums where people come to learn thing or two and know some facts about their club.

So when you say they were forced, explain how/sources and etc. If you don't want, then fine, but then again don't post If you don't care.

As for me being blinded, I haven't called you names and I'm respecting you so far, so I think you should do the same, know whom you're calling blinded fan before writing that....eh?

I dont have to convince anybody. It´s not my job, really. People like BBILAN know what I´m talking about and there are many else. (won´t name them)

I don´t invent stuff, I´m being reasonable. Now, just think logically. You say they are all traitors. Now I´m asking you for your definition of traitors. Show me by examples.

I´d like to begin with this:

- Do you think all the players were meant to stay at the club? If not, if our Board really decided to sell them for our own good (and their), how can they be labelled as traitors? For example, as I recall Juventus were not fighting for Cannavaro, Emerson, Mutu, Zambrotta and Thuram to stay at the club. As soon as we reached an agreement with Real Madrid, Fiorentina and Barcelona, we agreed to sell them. No hard feelings.

Now, in my opinion we have 4 categories of players which left us in thge scandal.

1st group

Emerson- went to Real Madrid. We don´t know how many offer he had or did have any offers beside Real Madrid. If he did, he probably chose Real because of Capello, his favourite manager (which is quite reasonable for me, other players have their preferred managers too) or because of the club itself, as Real Madrid is one of the most prestgious clubs in the world. Emerson was one of the 1st to leave and if I may remind you we didn´t know our club´s destiny. We could have played Serie C and if you ask me that is a bit too much of a risk for a top quality player at his 30´s.

Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Mutu and Thuram all belong to that category.

Some of us were hit by Zambrotta´s and Thuram´s statements, but I don´t blame them, they were going through hard moment. Do you know what it means to fight 2 years for the Scudetto and they take result of all that hard work from you. You should try to put yourself in that situation.

All these players were important for our club ands when they played they gave their all and I think you know that. When they were offered to leave, they left. They left because in reality they don´t have Juventus in their heart. Does that make them traitors?

2nd group of players

In that category belong Ibrahimovic and Vieira. Totally different examples. These two players didn´t enjoy at all playing for Juve and that can be seen this season with Inter. It appears they have not been satisifed at all with our shirt and they weren´t exactly irreplacable for Juventus.

Vieira - He also didn´t know what will the destiny of Juventus be and it was a big risk for him as he is also in his 30´s so he decided to left and Juventus didn´t make him any problems. I don´t know how many offers did he have, but it was obvious it was pretty low to go to Inter. On the other hand, Inter maybe offered more money and maybe Inter was his preferable destination. Fine, he left and nobody will remember him by good things he has done for Juve. I can realise why you don´t like him.

Ibrahimovic - totally different example here. Juventus actually wanted to keep him. He is still young, he could have helped Juventus to get out of problems and if he decided to leave next season he would still have a lot of clubs fighting for his signature. On the other hand he also was a bit unhappy at Juventus and from time to time he didn´t exactly give his all to the club but I guess that varies from player to player. He had the hunger to prove himself playing in top league and he also didn´t know the destiny of Juventus. So, Inter came along and bought him. He probably chose Inter because they were his preferred club. In the end we received good money for him so I would say he was a mistake from the first but at least he could have
shown more respect to Juve, I totally understand why you dislike him.

3rd group of players

Camoranesi and Trezeguet - Now this I don´t understand. You call all the players who left mercenaries/traitors but not these two players which stayed. How come? May I remind you that Camoranesi and Trezeguet would also be playing for other clubs if the club haven´t blocked them? Yes, Camoranesi and Trezeguet had some offers and they were ready to go, but the club didn´t allow them to change the club. So, they can´t be called heroes or whatsoever IMO, that would be just ignorant.

4th group of players

I think that I don´t need to waste any words on these players: Nedved, Del Piero, Buffon. These 3 players are Juventus leaders, heroes and personalities. They had good offers from other clubs even if DP and Nedved are deep in their 30´s but they refused it all just to help Juve no matter what league their play. true legends in everybody´s eyes.

Now I hope I cleared up this for you, Rab and I apologise for calling you blind although I don´t think that is an insult.

 

[tassard]

I dont have to convince anybody. It´s not my job, really. People like BBILAN know what I´m talking about and there are many else. (won´t name them)

I don´t invent stuff, I´m being reasonable. Now, just think logically. You say they are all traitors. Now I´m asking you for your definition of traitors. Show me by examples.

I´d like to begin with this:

- Do you think all the players were meant to stay at the club? If not, if our Board really decided to sell them for our own good (and their), how can they be labelled as traitors? For example, as I recall Juventus were not fighting for Cannavaro, Emerson, Mutu, Zambrotta and Thuram to stay at the club. As soon as we reached an agreement with Real Madrid, Fiorentina and Barcelona, we agreed to sell them. No hard feelings.

Now, in my opinion we have 4 categories of players which left us in thge scandal.

1st group

Emerson- went to Real Madrid. We don´t know how many offer he had or did have any offers beside Real Madrid. If he did, he probably chose Real because of Capello, his favourite manager (which is quite reasonable for me, other players have their preferred managers too) or because of the club itself, as Real Madrid is one of the most prestgious clubs in the world. Emerson was one of the 1st to leave and if I may remind you we didn´t know our club´s destiny. We could have played Serie C and if you ask me that is a bit too much of a risk for a top quality player at his 30´s.

Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Mutu and Thuram all belong to that category.

Some of us were hit by Zambrotta´s and Thuram´s statements, but I don´t blame them, they were going through hard moment. Do you know what it means to fight 2 years for the Scudetto and they take result of all that hard work from you. You should try to put yourself in that situation.

All these players were important for our club ands when they played they gave their all and I think you know that. When they were offered to leave, they left. They left because in reality they don´t have Juventus in their heart. Does that make them traitors?

2nd group of players

In that category belong Ibrahimovic and Vieira. Totally different examples. These two players didn´t enjoy at all playing for Juve and that can be seen this season with Inter. It appears they have not been satisifed at all with our shirt and they weren´t exactly irreplacable for Juventus.

Vieira - He also didn´t know what will the destiny of Juventus be and it was a big risk for him as he is also in his 30´s so he decided to left and Juventus didn´t make him any problems. I don´t know how many offers did he have, but it was obvious it was pretty low to go to Inter. On the other hand, Inter maybe offered more money and maybe Inter was his preferable destination. Fine, he left and nobody will remember him by good things he has done for Juve. I can realise why you don´t like him.

Ibrahimovic - totally different example here. Juventus actually wanted to keep him. He is still young, he could have helped Juventus to get out of problems and if he decided to leave next season he would still have a lot of clubs fighting for his signature. On the other hand he also was a bit unhappy at Juventus and from time to time he didn´t exactly give his all to the club but I guess that varies from player to player. He had the hunger to prove himself playing in top league and he also didn´t know the destiny of Juventus. So, Inter came along and bought him. He probably chose Inter because they were his preferred club. In the end we received good money for him so I would say he was a mistake from the first but at least he could have
shown more respect to Juve, I totally understand why you dislike him.

3rd group of players

Camoranesi and Trezeguet - Now this I don´t understand. You call all the players who left mercenaries/traitors but not these two players which stayed. How come? May I remind you that Camoranesi and Trezeguet would also be playing for other clubs if the club haven´t blocked them? Yes, Camoranesi and Trezeguet had some offers and they were ready to go, but the club didn´t allow them to change the club. So, they can´t be called heroes or whatsoever IMO, that would be just ignorant.

4th group of players

I think that I don´t need to waste any words on these players: Nedved, Del Piero, Buffon. These 3 players are Juventus leaders, heroes and personalities. They had good offers from other clubs even if DP and Nedved are deep in their 30´s but they refused it all just to help Juve no matter what league their play. true legends in everybody´s eyes.

Now I hope I cleared up this for you, Rab and I apologise for calling you blind although I don´t think that is an insult.

Great and logical post

 

[Azzurri7]

I don´t invent stuff, I´m being reasonable. Now, just think logically. You say they are all traitors. Now I´m asking you for your definition of traitors. Show me by examples.

Did you even read my posts??? when did I say they're all traitors

Thats what I said...

The only mercenary between all the names you said is Zambrotta and no one else.

I wouldn't call Cannavaro mercenary nor Thuram(though I didn't like what he stated about the club after he left...that was low IMO)...Back to Cannavaro, he only played two years for us. True, we all loved this player, but we shouldn't really force someone who only spend two seasons in this club to stay.

As for why I chose Zambrotta. I think my answer is pretty clear. We're the ones who made Zambrotta, Lippi to be more clear...but Juventus above all made this player into what he is right now, he's been playing for us long time, and he was one of the few players to replace the Captain armband from Del Piero. He shouldn't have really paid us back this way.

He should have atleast helped us to get back to serie a and then he's free to leave, I would have appreciated him much more this way. The same goes with Buffon, Trezeguet If they decided to leave, we should accept it with a good heart, I would honor them nefore leaving for helping this ship that was sinking.

As for the cunt called Ibra, thats the only positive thing about our demotion, him and that fag crapello left. Atleast we got rid of them.

And for Vieira, Emerson I really have nothing against them.

 

[Azzurri7]

1st group

Emerson- went to Real Madrid. We don´t know how many offer he had or did have any offers beside Real Madrid. If he did, he probably chose Real because of Capello, his favourite manager (which is quite reasonable for me, other players have their preferred managers too) or because of the club itself, as Real Madrid is one of the most prestgious clubs in the world. Emerson was one of the 1st to leave and if I may remind you we didn´t know our club´s destiny. We could have played Serie C and if you ask me that is a bit too much of a risk for a top quality player at his 30´s.

Good. So you proved my point which is Emerson wasn't forced to leave.

Some of us were hit by Zambrotta´s and Thuram´s statements, but I don´t blame them, they were going through hard moment. Do you know what it means to fight 2 years for the Scudetto and they take result of all that hard work from you. You should try to put yourself in that situation.

I'm sure Del Piero, Pavel, Buffon, Trezeguet, Camoranesi do know something about that.

Another statement, which I don't disagree with you, but you also proved my point that NO ONE forced them to leave. here is where I disagree with you. They CHOSE it, mark.

All these players were important for our club ands when they played they gave their all and I think you know that. When they were offered to leave, they left. They left because in reality they don´t have Juventus in their heart. Does that make them traitors?

Thank you. You said it. They recieved offers and they chose to left....and to answer your question, no, no one is a traitor to me but Zambrotta between them all.

Ibrahimovic - totally different example here. Juventus actually wanted to keep him.
shown more respect to Juve, I totally understand why you dislike him.

So we didn't oblige him to leave...we're agreein now arent we?

I'll always dislike this cunt, fuck him and fuck capello. black mark in Juve's history.

 

[peckface]

I'd love to have Cannavaro and Zambrotta back.

Cannavaro has already proven himself as one of the worlds best defenders in our backline and he could certainly be a nice tutor to our young guns (like Criscito). Imagine a Mexés - Cannavaro backline, that'd be sweeeeet.

Zambrotta for pretty much the same reasons. Though if he came we would be stuck with the "he should play left back"-debate ones again.

They are doing awful at their current clubs so they probably wouldn't be to expensive so bring em.

PS: Emerson, Vieira, Mutu if cheap. No Zlatan for obvious reasons and no Thuram.

 

[Azzurri7]

I think Zambrotta will end up in Milan soon. At least thats what he wants. I don't thik he'll consider returning to Juventus.

 

[Ahmedios]

I think Zambrotta will end up in Milan soon. At least thats what he wants. I don't thik he'll consider returning to Juventus.

And if he considers returning to Juve, I don't want him back. Some people might say that I have to look forward to the sake of the club and how much we'd benefit from Zambrotta if he returns back, plus I have to stop that bullshit about the way he left to the club, being a traitor, etc...

Yes, I completely support that bullshit, I won't welcome him back. Just think after 10 years from now when people mention how Zambrotta treated us, even thought, we welcomed him back to play two or three more seasons. I think that these three seasons won't decide who we are and won't make us history. We already have more than 100 years of history behind us, not for being a club of trophies but for being a club of honour.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

whats wrong with selling a few players (to save money during a time where income is not plenty) when that means you save over 30 million in wages and make an extra 30 millions on transfers

i am happy whoever left, left and for the right money anybody can come back next year

 

[Azzurri7]

And if he considers returning to Juve, I don't want him back. Some people might say that I have to look forward to the sake of the club and how much we'd benefit from Zambrotta if he returns back, plus I have to stop that bullshit about the way he left to the club, being a traitor, etc...

Yes, I completely support that bullshit, I won't welcome him back. Just think after 10 years from now when people mention how Zambrotta treated us, even thought, we welcomed him back to play two or three more seasons. I think that these three seasons won't decide who we are and won't make us history. We already have more than 100 years of history behind us, not for being a club of trophies but for being a club of honour.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Vinman]

the true mercenaries are Ibra and Vieira

they signed with our bitter enemy...

Canna, Zamby, Thuram, and Emo all at least had the decency to not only not play for a bitter rival, but not even play in Italy

 

[sateeh]

well one could be playing for Napoli next season and the other could be in Milan, would that change anything ?

 

[pavelnedved]

the true mercenaries are Ibra and Vieira

they signed with our bitter enemy...

Canna, Zamby, Thuram, and Emo all at least had the decency to not only not play for a bitter rival, but not even play in Italy

actually Zambrotta preferred a move to milan

 

[peckface]

whats wrong with selling a few players (to save money during a time where income is not plenty) when that means you save over 30 million in wages and make an extra 30 millions on transfers

i am happy whoever left, left and for the right money anybody can come back next year

my feelings exactly.

 

[petersmit]

if zambrotta goes to milan im gonna break his legs :faq2: him man.. we need him back at juve.. or he can stay in crappy spain

 

[Elvin]

Well, tbh Juve never had real mercenaries (Figo, Vieri example).

 

[soulslider]

Why do we waste time on this things? They don´t deserve that much attention really. They left and they won´t be coming back, we had this kind of threads and they were closed with a good reason, they are not our players anymore. We should rather spend time discussing our current players and players that could join us in the summer.

 

[Marc]

Why do we waste time on this things? They don´t deserve that much attention really. They left and they won´t be coming back, we had this kind of threads and they were closed with a good reason, they are not our players anymore. We should rather spend time discussing our current players and players that could join us in the summer.

As Besmir said, if certain players want to come back to help us I would be pleased with their decision and depending on the price I would take them as they are still quality players, though I´m sure some of them wouldn´t come back such as Vieira, Zambrotta, Thuram and Ibrahimovic. Ibra and Vieira weren´t at the club long enough and they never really felt like Juventinos and according to their comments they feel better at Inter. I really doubt that, but fine, let them be happy in another club cause signing them back would be a slap in our face.

As for Zambrotta and Thuram, they feel like they were betrayed as all the hard work they did over the last 5 seasons has gone to air and I perfectly understand that. However, their comments were very painful and they have to realise it hurst the club even more.

I say forget them all.....

 

[Elvin]

Word. Non of them (except maybe Ibrahomovic) can say that they don't regret leaving Juventus, cause honestly they've all been having pretty crappy times (early CL exits and not making first 11).

 

[arc]

didnt mutu want to stay?