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Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,359
Juventus must find middle way

The Bianconeri have switched from defence to attack, but Gaby McKay says it’s the midfield that needs to be addressed.

Buddhist tradition holds that the path to enlightenment is the 'Middle Way’; neither sensual indulgence nor self-mortification. To go to one extreme or the other is to ultimately limit oneself, as neither represents the true experience of the human condition.

Football may not be a matter of life and death - although some may say “it’s much more important than that” - but what is the beautiful game if not a microcosm of the trials and tribulations of everyday live? Joy, sorrow, loss, anger - football fans can go through all of these and more in the space of 90 minutes, and in kind the best teams are perfectly balanced between attack and defence, cynicism and beauty, flair and pragmatism.

By any yardstick, Juventus are one of the best teams in Europe. The Bianconeri have won the Scudetto for the past six seasons in a row, the Coppa Italia in three successive years and have reached two of the last three Champions League finals.

While accusations that Juve were defensive, physical or indeed boring were always way off the mark, that success was built on a fearsome defence; 'the BBC’ of Andrea Barzagli, Leonardo Bonucci and Giorgio Chiellini, backed up by Gianluigi Buffon.

After the 4-1 loss to Real Madrid in last season’s Champions League final though, the Old Lady switched her focus, intent on finally tasting European glory. Bonucci left for Milan and Dani Alves went to Paris Saint-Germain. The summer transfer campaign focused on the attack, with Federico Bernardeschi and Douglas Costa arriving to bolster Max Allegri’s attack.

In a sense it has paid off, with Juventus scoring 37 goals in their first 13 Serie A games. The 19 goals conceded in all competitions could be forgiven if that stellar attack took the Bianconeri closer to Europe’s elite. Unfortunately though, they’ve ignored the middle way, or in this case the midfield.

Tonight’s match with Barcelona saw Allegri deploy close to €200m of attacking talent in the shape of Gonzalo Higuain, Juan Cuadrado, Paulo Dybala and Douglas Costa. At the other end of the pitch, Buffon barely had a save to make, even after the introduction of Lionel Messi.

However, Juve were never truly able to get a grip on a must-win game, due to a lack of balance in the midfield.

Allegri’s decision to switch to a 4-2-3-1 midway through last season paid huge dividends, but in Cardiff against Real Madrid and in big matches so far this season his side have looked lightweight in the middle of the park.

Tonight saw Miralem Pjanic partner Sami Khedira, and neither could offer the intensity and pressing to unsettle Barça’s rhythm. Indeed, as the game progressed Allegri brought on three central midfielders: Rodrigo Bentancur, Claudio Marchisio and Blaise Matuidi.

The Bianconeri don’t lack talent in central midfield, but the two games with the Blaugrana - as well as the losses to Sampdoria and Lazio - indicate that three players are needed in the engine room.

Higuain, Dybala et al will see the Old Lady past teams like Benevento and Sassuolo, but they can’t do much against Barcelona if Juventus have just 62 per cent of possession and the ball never reaches them.

The 4-2-3-1 was a fine solution last season, when Allegri had to find a place for Dybala, Cuadrado, Higuain and Mario Mandzukic. The Coach famously called it a “mad idea” but it carried his side to a domestic double and the Champions League final. It may even be enough for a seventh Scudetto in a row - though the Turin giants face a bigger challenge than ever this season - but can it really get them over that Champions League line?

Juve now face a must-win game at Olympiakos, but even if they prevail they don’t currently look like a side capable of going all the way.

How do you add balance to the midfield without moving Dybala out of position? How does Mandzukic fit into the team with Higuain, if not on the left wing? Allegri needs a new “mad idea” if Juventus are to find a balanced approach, the Middle Way, in both Italy and Europe.


- - - Updated - - -

---------------

We aren't losing games because of our defense. We are losing games because we can't control the midfield anymore. Pjanic & Khedira should only play together in a 3 man midfield if Max insists on Sami. Need muscle in there with them.



Ideally it should be Marchisio-Pjanic-Matuidi
 

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rakib567

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2013
10,084
Our 4231 is too static. With mandzukic on the left wing the only source of penetration from attach is either dybala or cuadrado. Most teams now man-mark dybala and that just leaves cuadrado on the RW trying to beat 2-3 men.

Additionally, the use of barzagli as RB is plain stupid, he hasn't got pace especially bad in this modern day of overlapping fullbacks. Last year we had Dani alves to provide offensive threat from RB.

We could play a super-offensive 4312 with cuadrado at RB (or new RB we buy in january).

----------------Buffon
Cuadrado Rugani Chiellini Sandro
----Khedira Marchisio Pjanic
-----------Bernardeschi
------Dybala --------Higuain

This would actually rip teams apart. We just need to ensure Marchisio stays back so that when the fullbacks push up so we maintain a "back 3".

When Higuain is not performing we have Mandzukic so show how its done. This will motivate Higuain to push harder.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
62,568
Stop spreading bs. Real drew with Legia 3:3 and finished behind BVB in the group stage last season.

You all need to calm down. The team needs to be evaluated on how it performs in the decisive stage of the season. Did you forget where were we two years ago at this stage? But no, let's be the classic Arsenal winning everything in the fist months just to be out of the running in March already when everyone else just start to perform.
:tup: Common sense, not on tuz of course.
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,186
Guardiola teaches Sterling how to improve his movement, which he replicated yesterday when he scored the winner.

[video=twitter;933290211244724230]https://twitter.com/FCBdailyy/status/933290211244724230[/video]

I wonder what Max is teaching our attacking players in training...
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,186
Higuain's movement at Napoli was deadly, since he came here he's been as clueless as the rest of our forwards on what to do in the final third of the pitch.

At some point it's time to stop blaming the player and start blaming the manager, who is the source of the problem.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,288
Higuain's movement at Napoli was deadly, since he came here he's been as clueless as the rest of our forwards on what to do in the final third of the pitch.

At some point it's time to stop blaming the player and start blaming the manager, who is the source of the problem.

He scored 32 goals last season. That's not exactly clueless. He's not the striker I wanted and I don't think we'll ever win the CL with him as our starting striker, but how you people consistently underrate this guy is a mystery to me.
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,186
He scored 32 goals last season. That's not exactly clueless. He's not the striker I wanted and I don't think we'll ever win the CL with him as our starting striker, but how you people consistently underrate this guy is a mystery to me.
That was not a shot at Higuain (he's a great striker, albeit in bad form), it's criticism of Allegri. It's Max's fault that there is no understanding between our attacking players and Pipita is getting zero service.
 

Monty

Tuz Royalty
May 2, 2017
2,592
Higuain's movement at Napoli was deadly, since he came here he's been as clueless as the rest of our forwards on what to do in the final third of the pitch.

At some point it's time to stop blaming the player and start blaming the manager, who is the source of the problem.
out of curiosity, have you been anti-Allegri since the beginning or just this season?
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,288
That was not a shot at Higuain (he's a great striker, albeit in bad form), it's criticism of Allegri. It's Max's fault that there is zero understanding between our attacking players and Pipita is getting no service.
Ah I see what you mean. Still not sure I agree though.
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,186
out of curiosity, have you been anti-Allegri since the beginning or just this season?
He should have resigned after Cardiff IMO.

I was pro-Allegri in 2014/15 and 2015/16. At the start of last season I was already beginning to doubt him when he refused to give Pjaca any meaningful minutes even when our attack desperately needed a source of creativity other than Dybala.

He's completely lost it this season.
 

duranfj

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
8,773
He should have resigned after Cardiff IMO.

I was pro-Allegri in 2014/15 and 2015/16. At the start of last season I was already beginning to doubt him when he refused to give Pjaca any meaningful minutes even when our attack desperately needed a source of creativity other than Dybala.

He's completely lost it this season.
Last season he did a lot of stupid choices at the first half of the season and then he did an awesome second half except for Cardiff second half... I hope this season he does it again
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,446
Juventus must find middle way

The Bianconeri have switched from defence to attack, but Gaby McKay says it’s the midfield that needs to be addressed.

Buddhist tradition holds that the path to enlightenment is the 'Middle Way’; neither sensual indulgence nor self-mortification. To go to one extreme or the other is to ultimately limit oneself, as neither represents the true experience of the human condition.

Football may not be a matter of life and death - although some may say “it’s much more important than that” - but what is the beautiful game if not a microcosm of the trials and tribulations of everyday live? Joy, sorrow, loss, anger - football fans can go through all of these and more in the space of 90 minutes, and in kind the best teams are perfectly balanced between attack and defence, cynicism and beauty, flair and pragmatism.

By any yardstick, Juventus are one of the best teams in Europe. The Bianconeri have won the Scudetto for the past six seasons in a row, the Coppa Italia in three successive years and have reached two of the last three Champions League finals.

While accusations that Juve were defensive, physical or indeed boring were always way off the mark, that success was built on a fearsome defence; 'the BBC’ of Andrea Barzagli, Leonardo Bonucci and Giorgio Chiellini, backed up by Gianluigi Buffon.

After the 4-1 loss to Real Madrid in last season’s Champions League final though, the Old Lady switched her focus, intent on finally tasting European glory. Bonucci left for Milan and Dani Alves went to Paris Saint-Germain. The summer transfer campaign focused on the attack, with Federico Bernardeschi and Douglas Costa arriving to bolster Max Allegri’s attack.

In a sense it has paid off, with Juventus scoring 37 goals in their first 13 Serie A games. The 19 goals conceded in all competitions could be forgiven if that stellar attack took the Bianconeri closer to Europe’s elite. Unfortunately though, they’ve ignored the middle way, or in this case the midfield.

Tonight’s match with Barcelona saw Allegri deploy close to €200m of attacking talent in the shape of Gonzalo Higuain, Juan Cuadrado, Paulo Dybala and Douglas Costa. At the other end of the pitch, Buffon barely had a save to make, even after the introduction of Lionel Messi.

However, Juve were never truly able to get a grip on a must-win game, due to a lack of balance in the midfield.

Allegri’s decision to switch to a 4-2-3-1 midway through last season paid huge dividends, but in Cardiff against Real Madrid and in big matches so far this season his side have looked lightweight in the middle of the park.

Tonight saw Miralem Pjanic partner Sami Khedira, and neither could offer the intensity and pressing to unsettle Barça’s rhythm. Indeed, as the game progressed Allegri brought on three central midfielders: Rodrigo Bentancur, Claudio Marchisio and Blaise Matuidi.

The Bianconeri don’t lack talent in central midfield, but the two games with the Blaugrana - as well as the losses to Sampdoria and Lazio - indicate that three players are needed in the engine room.

Higuain, Dybala et al will see the Old Lady past teams like Benevento and Sassuolo, but they can’t do much against Barcelona if Juventus have just 62 per cent of possession and the ball never reaches them.

The 4-2-3-1 was a fine solution last season, when Allegri had to find a place for Dybala, Cuadrado, Higuain and Mario Mandzukic. The Coach famously called it a “mad idea” but it carried his side to a domestic double and the Champions League final. It may even be enough for a seventh Scudetto in a row - though the Turin giants face a bigger challenge than ever this season - but can it really get them over that Champions League line?

Juve now face a must-win game at Olympiakos, but even if they prevail they don’t currently look like a side capable of going all the way.

How do you add balance to the midfield without moving Dybala out of position? How does Mandzukic fit into the team with Higuain, if not on the left wing? Allegri needs a new “mad idea” if Juventus are to find a balanced approach, the Middle Way, in both Italy and Europe.


- - - Updated - - -

---------------

We aren't losing games because of our defense. We are losing games because we can't control the midfield anymore. Pjanic & Khedira should only play together in a 3 man midfield if Max insists on Sami. Need muscle in there with them.



Ideally it should be Marchisio-Pjanic-Matuidi
So many words to say absolutely nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

He should have resigned after Cardiff IMO.

I was pro-Allegri in 2014/15 and 2015/16. At the start of last season I was already beginning to doubt him when he refused to give Pjaca any meaningful minutes even when our attack desperately needed a source of creativity other than Dybala.

He's completely lost it this season.
I agree, but then we would be in an even bigger mess had he resigned. The problem is in our club philosophy which is just not sustainable.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
Guardiola teaches Sterling how to improve his movement, which he replicated yesterday when he scored the winner.

[video=twitter;933290211244724230]https://twitter.com/FCBdailyy/status/933290211244724230[/video]

I wonder what Max is teaching our attacking players in training...
so Guardiola teaches dumbass Sterling the most basic move in football and you praise him :baus: i wonder what he was teaching his team when Monaco put 15 goals past them in 2 games ::lol3::
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,186
so Guardiola teaches dumbass Sterling the most basic move in football and you praise him :baus: i wonder what he was teaching his team when Monaco put 15 goals past them in 2 games ::lol3::
It's not just about the move itself, he was teaching him the timing of when to make his run and when to turn.

You can laugh at that tweet and claim that Pep didn't do anything significant. Meanwhile other teams will laugh at our clueless attack who have zero cohesion and don't known how to move to create space against any decent defensive side.

This dumbass Sterling has scored more goals than all of our players but Dybala. He has improved exponentially under Pep. That's what Pep does, he improves attacking players.

Dybala would become a monster under Pep.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
It's not just about the move itself, he was teaching him the timing of when to make his run and when to turn.

You can laugh at that tweet and claim that Pep didn't do anything significant. Meanwhile other teams will laugh at our clueless attack who have zero cohesion and don't known how to move to create space against any decent defensive side.

This dumbass Sterling has scored more goals than all of our players but Dybala. He has improved exponentially under Pep. That's what Pep does, he improves attacking players.

Dybala would become a monster under Pep.
rocket science :baus:

Henry, Ibra, Villa, Alexis, Mandzukic, Aguero all have looked better without Pep than with him. and those are only strikers, i havent even named wingers or AMs yet
 

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