Juve's transfer campaign so far... (11 Viewers)

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Alex66

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2006
612
Flamini > Poulsen

Ronaldinho+Borrielo > Amauri

Zambro >= Melberg

Sheva > Knezevic

Put Boriello away, he isnt that good. Ronaldinho>Amauri:agree:

For the other two comparsions-Zambro and Mellberg are different kind of players, but in terms of contribution to the team youre right.
Sheva is a different level(and kind) of a player compared to Knezevic and is experienced striker in the Serie A, but Im not sure that he will do well for them(hope not).
Anyway, the board should be blamed. It seems that they dont know what they are doing(buying a forward, DM and a Knezevic instead of a quality defender, creative mid. and a mediocre forward). They have no strategy. A bunch of idiots, at least Secco is a real one.
 

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Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Hahaha, well spotted. Traore was a pathetic and horrifying player, most top teams has had an abysmal player now and then, the general difference is how quickly you get rid of those players.
Except us, we are building our future Juve, on Molinaro!

But again, we are probably not building a future top team...
 

Lucky Luke

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2007
6,218
And we finished 5th. And I don't think he'd start over Aurellio or Dossena.
ofcors...humour man
Hahaha, well spotted. Traore was a pathetic and horrifying player, most top teams has had an abysmal player now and then, the general difference is how quickly you get rid of those players.
well said
O, another reason to envy Portsmouth:pimp:
you got me
 

Lucky Luke

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2007
6,218
Put Boriello away, he isnt that good. Ronaldinho>Amauri:agree:

For the other two comparsions-Zambro and Mellberg are different kind of players, but in terms of contribution to the team youre right.
Sheva is a different level(and kind) of a player compared to Knezevic and is experienced striker in the Serie A, but Im not sure that he will do well for them(hope not).
Anyway, the board should be blamed. It seems that they dont know what they are doing. They have no strategy. A bunch of idiots, at least Secco is a real one.
dont say that
they might hear
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
v1rtu4l get REAL ffs
honestly is there even a way to compare the value of Knezevic and Sheva, for real???
Are you serious???
i was just quoting YOU... so how do you come blaming me for the comparision of sheva with kneze ? you did it in the first place...

first off, comparing players with different positions is always difficult but just watching from the economic standpoint there is a realistic chance that knezevic is a better signing than sheva

the only thing to happen for this is, shevchenko not gaining his former form and not playing ... so milan will have spend a bunch of money on a player they wont be able to sell, because everybody knows that if he does not regain in milan then he probably nowhere will.

milan will have spent xxx € (don't know what his wages were in chelsea but i guess it is more than knezevics wages+fee) on him, while we might play knezevic in 2 not very important games (perhaps the coppa italia) and will have spend few money for a 2 decent games (what is ok).
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Put Boriello away, he isnt that good. Ronaldinho>Amauri:agree:

For the other two comparsions-Zambro and Mellberg are different kind of players, but in terms of contribution to the team youre right.
Sheva is a different level of a player compared to Knezevic and is experienced striker in the Serie A, but Im not sure that he will do well for them(hope not).


Anyway, the board should be blamed. It seems that they dont know what they are doing. They have no strategy. A bunch of idiots, at least Secco is a real one.
I added more players because Milan took different type of players and because they added almost the double player we did, so they have more and better solutions and solve their future problems more efficiently than we will ours.

Thank you
!
Many of our fans are trying to ignore that, dunno why, ignoring the facts is obscure, someone might ignore some signs and hope for the best, but those transfer are made, or they are not made, we cannot ignore them!
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,662
Hahaha, well spotted. Traore was a pathetic and horrifying player, most top teams has had an abysmal player now and then, the general difference is how quickly you get rid of those players.
He was gone the next season. That's the good thing about Rafa, he doesn't usually make a 20 million pound "mistake". Josemi, Paletta, Kronkamp, Traore were all sold for reasonable profit the next season.:D
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
I added more players because Milan took different type of players and because they added almost the double player we did, so they have more and better solutions and solve their future problems more efficiently than we will ours.
where in the world are the eleven (11) players that milan got new double the amount we brought in with ten players... you really got to check your math

milan:
flamini,zambrotta,boriello,antonini,viudez,ronaldinho,cardaccio, paloschi, shevchenko, senderos, abbiati

juve:
mellberg, chimenti, ekdal, manninger, amauri, poulsen, knezevic, marchisio, giovinco, de ceglie

besides the star players they signed (which do have a bigger name than the "star" players we signed) we did well to add depth to our squad and that not only by buying knezevics ... you can bet your ass that players like de ceglie, giovinco and marchisio are at least one class above some paloschi, cardaccio or viudez' !
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
i was just quoting YOU... so how do you come blaming me for the comparision of sheva with kneze ? you did it in the first place...

first off, comparing players with different positions is always difficult but just watching from the economic standpoint there is a realistic chance that knezevic is a better signing than sheva

the only thing to happen for this is, shevchenko not gaining his former form and not playing ... so milan will have spend a bunch of money on a player they wont be able to sell, because everybody knows that if he does not regain in milan then he probably nowhere will.

milan will have spent xxx € (don't know what his wages were in chelsea but i guess it is more than knezevics wages+fee) on him, while we might play knezevic in 2 not very important games (perhaps the coppa italia) and will have spend few money for a 2 decent games (what is ok).
O, arguments at last!! Love them:weee:

I m not calling you insane for comparing them, we bought one forward and Milan brought 3, so i had to make some comparisons that they are not meant to be compared on the field, but they are meant to be compared as footballistic values.
But i am calling you insane for comparing Sheva value, to Knezevic.
I couldnt find a sane argument to justify that.
Glad you brought, even if it isnt objective, it proves sanity at least, so all hope is not lost, we may be able to reason in the end.

Again speculation, we cant judge by speculation, every player has a certain value
and this is what we can judge atm
Sheva might become the best scorer and Knezevic might become the new Andrade.
Or quite the opposite, Knezevic might become the knew Chiellini and Knezevic the new Ronaldo. But what are the odds? we cant tell!
We will judge their performances after this season ends, right know we are discussing for their current value and potential.
How can we reach a step closer to the most probable scenario?
Judging by the history we all know, judging by theirs transfer market value, as you have said the transfer managers, the ones responsible for this certain job, know better than us and they are the only ones responsible to make a decent evaluation of a player.
So a players value says a lot of things.
We can also judge by the teams and level of competition a players was used to play.

Certainly when someone faces competition from Messi, probably the most on form player on the world, is a bit harder than someone who faces competition from an injured Miccoli, isnt it?
So having a bad year could be tricky if you dont take a close look to the conditions.
We can go down the details, but i sense that the reason of the experts is enough to convince you.
Think of it, if Knezevic had the potential to become as good and as useful as Senderos can become, why would their prices differ so much??
Do you trust or you no trusting your experts?

Thats not my point, thats not how i judge things, but how you do, i expect an objective answer here, but i will not tolerate a turn of your judgments methods only to escape from here!

The economical issue sounds logic, but you forgot smth, Milan has much much more money to spare and we have to be much much smarter to cope,
they can afford to spend more and gamble with more and better player and salaries, we cant, that doesnt change the fact that we compete in the same championship though, that doesnt change the fact that we have to best them, so we can win a title, because its with them that we compete!!

We must either admit that we are not after the same goals/titles, or that we did worse than they did to strengthen our team...
Stop eluding...
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
where in the world are the eleven (11) players that milan got new double the amount we brought in with ten players... you really got to check your math

milan:
flamini,zambrotta,boriello,antonini,viudez,ronaldinho,cardaccio, paloschi, shevchenko, senderos, abbiati

juve:
mellberg, chimenti, ekdal, manninger, amauri, poulsen, knezevic, marchisio, giovinco, de ceglie

besides the star players they signed (which do have a bigger name than the "star" players we signed) we did well to add depth to our squad and that not only by buying knezevics ... you can bet your ass that players live de ceglie, giovinco and marchisio are at least one class above some paloschi, cardaccio or viudez' !
just like i said from the start i only count the major players, that got bought

Counting our youngsters would only make this discussion worthless, because i only insist that these players were already ours and the decision to bring them now wasnt upon to us to make, they were indirectly brought here, partially because our owners found a cheap way not to invest, partially because of the praise of other teams, partially because of the visions who lead our club long before the new noobs take over, partially because he coming of their age was now and indicated the right time to come back.
This management didnt select them, they invested nothing to bring them, they are not worth of any praise for having them here to help us, they only didi this because they are cheap and available, some goes for our old champions!
And mostly because this discussion would remotely become and ridiculous since we all now that for all Juve fans, Giovinco alone worths more than Ronaldinho, Sheva,Zambro and Flamini put together, so i m keeping this real and i am referring to the major players we both bought!

As a Juventino,i have strong faith at those youngsters, i had faith of them for years, even before when they joined our team and offered their services in serie B, imo these boys are the most promising material of Italy atm
I was expecting this cheap shot at any minute...
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
just like i said from the start i only count the major players, that got bought
if you want to be that exact than you may not count senderos and sheva into the equation, because they are not bought but just loaned out ... and i truly believe we could have loaned out some former star players by ourselves, but our project is not to fix the next season with mediocre/out-of-form star players that will hinder our youngsters progress.

what if we loaned out sheva instead of buying amauri.... would you really be satisfied? (please ignore the fact that sheva might feel milan is his home and so on)
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
if you want to be that exact than you may not count senderos and sheva into the equation, because they are not bought but just loaned out ... and i truly believe we could have loaned out some former star players by ourselves, but our project is not to fix the next season with mediocre/out-of-form star players that will hinder our youngsters progress.

what if we loaned out sheva instead of buying amauri.... would you really be satisfied? (please ignore the fact that sheva might feel milan is his home and so on)
loaned doent mean that someone is bought for a year?
Knezevic was loaned too if i am not mistaken and Mellberg wasnt bought either.

The players we are acquired and they were not ours, or they were nor gifted to us, are bought players as far as this season concerns, what we will did with their contracts, in the next transfer period (even at x-mas) is a different matter...
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,662
To clarify. Players currently on Juve or Milan with a loan agreement count. While players who were on loan last season and have returned to their respective squads do not count?
 
OP

Mark

The Informer
Administrator
Dec 19, 2003
97,628
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #216
    Can somebody make me a small resume of Cronios last couple posts? Thanks!



    :p
     

    Alen

    Ѕenior Аdmin
    Apr 2, 2007
    53,941
    Cron, why shouldn't we count our youngsters ?
    Because of them we didn't buy other players and if we did buy other players we could've compared them with our youngsters. It makes no sense.
    We should compare the new players, and we should compare them by their positions, not in order to suit our argument.

    It should be done this way :

    Manninger vs Abbiatti
    De Ceglie vs Zambrotta
    Mellberg vs Senderos
    Poulsen vs Flamini
    Giovinco vs Ronaldinho
    Amauri vs Shevchenko

    Knezevic, Ekdal, Marchisio and Chimenti are the four other players we brought, while Milan brought Borriello, Antonini and the 2 kids from Uruguay.

    Imo, Milan clearly beats us for the LB position and arguably they got a better DM than we did (i say arguably because Flamini had only one successful career in his life while Poulsen is consistently solid).

    This leaves us with the GK position and the CB position where we did more or less equally.
    Now, the attack. Even a pessimist like yourself ( or realist, whichever suits you) will have to admit that no matter if Sheva's and Dinho's names are much more famous, there is a very realistic chance that Amauri and Giovinco will be much better players this and in the next years than Dinho and Sheva.

    You say that Milan bought more attackers, but ask yourselves how many attackers did they have last year. Plus, Borriello may be gone in the next few days.

    Now, i believe that Milan had a better mercato than Juve and i say this only because we didn't buy 2 more quality defenders ( Cb and a full back), not because Milan bought the right players that will bring them countless trophies.
     

    Alen

    Ѕenior Аdmin
    Apr 2, 2007
    53,941
    Btw, about Milan.......
    They added depth alright. But didn't the Galacticos era teach us that you don't add depth by buying superstars ?

    Ancelotti will have trouble. First of all, half of their superstars are in decline but they'll still want to play.
    How will he do it ?

    Play his dear 4-3-2-1...... if he does this he needs 3 men in midfield. Pirlo is certain while Gattuso, Flamini and Ambrosini will rotate for two places. No problem here.
    The AMC's. Kaka, Ronaldinho, Seedorf. None of them will accept the bench but one of them will have to with these tactics.
    The attack - Pato, Shevchenko, Inzaghi and Borriello will fight for one single place.

    Will Seedorf accept the bench ? Will Ronaldinho accept the bench ? Will Shevchenko and Inzaghi accept the bench ? Is it smart to bench Pato ? Borriello said that he wants to play, not to be benched. If he stays in Milan don't you think he'll complain all the time ?

    Lets try something else then. 4-3-1-2. This way you play two attackers, but you have to bench two from Kaka, Dinho, Seedorf. Yeah, right. Good luck with that.

    And the last option, 4-2-2-2. Two AMC's (one benched), two strikers (two benched) and....... two central midfielders. Pirlo and Gattuso ? If this is the case Milan will play with 5 players that don't defend at all.

    Can you see the trouble Ancelotti's in ? He has bunch of superstars (ex-superstars) that do not offer too much but will demand playing time and won't stop complaining and moaning if they don't play.
     
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