Italy = anti islam (1 Viewer)

[Sadomin]

exactly, but dont go acting like that it the end of the world, when we all know that certain places are worse. even if italy is in the EU.

It is simply a rather difficult decision to understand. Most countries in the West strive for religious freedom and secularity, whereas Italy is going the wrong way. Still, as you're saying, it's not the end of the world.

 

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[Tom]

I tyhink its fair enough really. People can say its discrimination but at the end of the day, 9/11 - 7/7 - madrid bombings - suicide bombings every day in iraq - al qaeda - 99% of terrorist threats and activities - its in the name of islam.

 

[/usr/bin]

I tyhink its fair enough really. People can say its discrimination but at the end of the day, 9/11 - 7/7 - madrid bombings - suicide bombings every day in iraq - al qaeda - 99% of terrorist threats and activities - its in the name of islam.

It's not in the name of islam, per se..

These people make these heinous acts, and use "the name of islam" or "the name of God" as an excuse.. These people are neither Muslims, nor in any position to do anything "in the name of Islam" IMO..

 

[Enron]

It's not in the name of islam, per se..

These people make these heinous acts, and use "the name of islam" or "the name of God" as an excuse.. These people are neither Muslims, nor in any position to do anything "in the name of Islam" IMO..

thats a valid point. but the fact is that these acts are being done in the name of islam. whether is represents the actual religion doesnt matter as long as these idiots are giving the world a reason to fear and hate.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

on the plus side, they do look an awful a lot like real muslims

 

[Enron]

exactly Bes. you are a wise man.

 

[/usr/bin]

thats a valid point. but the fact is that these acts are being done in the name of islam. whether is represents the actual religion doesnt matter as long as these idiots are giving the world a reason to fear and hate.

That's true.. which is why my hate of discrimination is directed a lot towards these people..

 

[Respaul]

A question,

If i moved to a muslim country in the middle east...

If i said i was offended by the mention of islam in school, religious symbolism etc... would it be removed so i was comfortable ?

Of course not... Thats what is being asked (and granted) in the likes of the uk and italy...

If i was offended because there wasnt a church... would these countries close down a local mosque and replace it with a churc ? of course not (again something requested and granted across the uk and italy)

If i wished for the countries religious foundations to be swept aside as i was offended by it, would that happen ?

Of course not, but is expected in italy and the uk...

Sorry but a country has no obligation to change their culture and to dumb down the virtues that country was built on jus to please people coming into the country of other beliefs...

Of course a country must give people coming in from different cultures the freedom to live along the lines of their faith, but not to change for them...

People coming in are the ones who need to compromise and fit in to the traditions and way of life of the country they wish to reside in... the country has no need to change for them, but only to allow the rifght to practice their faith

If people refuse to compromise and adapt to their new country / way of life ... well bad fvcking luck

 

[venom]

Italian anti-terror law enacted

*snip

Those who hide their features from the public - including through wearing the Islamic burqa - also face punishment.

*snip

doubling to 24 hours the time suspects can be kept in custody without charge

Wow, I'm sure now italians can sleep in safety. How in the hell can e.g. these things have any effect on terrorists, if someone wants blow himself up with a backpack full of explosives I'm sure she really doesn't care whether she can wear a burqa or not.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

A question,

If i moved to a muslim country in the middle east...

If i said i was offended by the mention of islam in school, religious symbolism etc... would it be removed so i was comfortable ?

Of course not... Thats what is being asked (and granted) in the likes of the uk and italy...

If i was offended because there wasnt a church... would these countries close down a local mosque and replace it with a churc ? of course not (again something requested and granted across the uk and italy)

If i wished for the countries religious foundations to be swept aside as i was offended by it, would that happen ?

Of course not, but is expected in italy and the uk...

Sorry but a country has no obligation to change their culture and to dumb down the virtues that country was built on jus to please people coming into the country of other beliefs...

Of course a country must give people coming in from different cultures the freedom to live along the lines of their faith, but not to change for them...

People coming in are the ones who need to compromise and fit in to the traditions and way of life of the country they wish to reside in... the country has no need to change for them, but only to allow the rifght to practice their faith

If people refuse to compromise and adapt to their new country / way of life ... well bad fvcking luck

and the only excuse for this is that italy is a western developed country

 

[swag]

It's not in the name of islam, per se..

These people make these heinous acts, and use "the name of islam" or "the name of God" as an excuse.. These people are neither Muslims, nor in any position to do anything "in the name of Islam" IMO..

The big problem is that these radicals are trying to cloud things for both Muslims and non-Muslims. They seem to be trying to create such an anti-Islamic wedge among non-Muslims in the hopes that the more "mainstream" (or dare I say, "sane"?!) Muslims will find greater allegiance with their own causes.

So what we get is, "No, I'm a Muslim. You are not a true Muslim." "No, you are not a true Muslim. And to prove it, I will kill you as an infidel." And we're stuck with, "Will the real Muslim please stand up?"

That has always been a trouble with religious belief throughout history. It's been used as a tool to create heritics of those who disagree. And because it is based in faith rather than fact, no one gets to claim a real monopoly on what the real and true religion is.

 

[mikhail]

Italy's upper house backed the bill on Friday.

The package of extra measures approved overwhelmingly by parliament includes:

interrogating suspects without lawyers present

I find it sickening that the attention on the article here is centred on whether someone is allowed wear a burka.

Is no one else disgusted at the permission of interrogation by police without the presence of a lawyer? That's a denial of a genuinely important right for no better purpose than convenience. It'll probably take a couple of deaths of people in custody before it'll be changed back.

 

[/usr/bin]

The big problem is that these radicals are trying to cloud things for both Muslims and non-Muslims. They seem to be trying to create such an anti-Islamic wedge among non-Muslims in the hopes that the more "mainstream" (or dare I say, "sane"?!) Muslims will find greater allegiance with their own causes.

So what we get is, "No, I'm a Muslim. You are not a true Muslim." "No, you are not a true Muslim. And to prove it, I will kill you as an infidel." And we're stuck with, "Will the real Muslim please stand up?"

That has always been a trouble with religious belief throughout history. It's been used as a tool to create heritics of those who disagree. And because it is based in faith rather than fact, no one gets to claim a real monopoly on what the real and true religion is.

That's very true.. and what I find even more saddening is that a major part of the population are sheep.. They do whatever their Imam/Islamic Leader "advises" them to do..

Oh, and I'm not saying that all Imam's are the same.. but some of them are terrorist-breeders, unfortunately..

 

[/usr/bin]

I find it sickening that the attention on the article here is centred on whether someone is allowed wear a burka.

Is no one else disgusted at the permission of interrogation by police without the presence of a lawyer? That's a denial of a genuinely important right for no better purpose than convenience. It'll probably take a couple of deaths of people in custody before it'll be changed back.

Oh.. I skimmed through the article and missed that point..

 

[Tom]

A question,

If i moved to a muslim country in the middle east...

If i said i was offended by the mention of islam in school, religious symbolism etc... would it be removed so i was comfortable ?

Of course not... Thats what is being asked (and granted) in the likes of the uk and italy...

If i was offended because there wasnt a church... would these countries close down a local mosque and replace it with a churc ? of course not (again something requested and granted across the uk and italy)

If i wished for the countries religious foundations to be swept aside as i was offended by it, would that happen ?

Of course not, but is expected in italy and the uk...

Sorry but a country has no obligation to change their culture and to dumb down the virtues that country was built on jus to please people coming into the country of other beliefs...

Of course a country must give people coming in from different cultures the freedom to live along the lines of their faith, but not to change for them...

People coming in are the ones who need to compromise and fit in to the traditions and way of life of the country they wish to reside in... the country has no need to change for them, but only to allow the rifght to practice their faith

If people refuse to compromise and adapt to their new country / way of life ... well bad fvcking luck

most of that post I agree with, 100% - except the bit about allowing them the right to practice their faith.. would like to know where you stand on that. Personally i object to seeing mosques/temples everywhere I don't think they should have a place in our society - only serve to divide the communities anyway - if these people want to practice their faith in their own homes fine but seeing the influence of other cultures beginning to supercede/dominate our own is sickening. Perhaps I'm a hardliner on this issue but its the one reason I'll never vote labour

 

[swag]

I find it sickening that the attention on the article here is centred on whether someone is allowed wear a burka.

Is no one else disgusted at the permission of interrogation by police without the presence of a lawyer? That's a denial of a genuinely important right for no better purpose than convenience. It'll probably take a couple of deaths of people in custody before it'll be changed back.

I completely agree that calling this move "anti-Muslim" only scratches the surface. It's really a civil rights issue for just about everybody.

But what do I know. I have my own Patriot Act here, where I'm obviously not a good American if I don't agree to formerly illegal seaches, seizures, and detentions.

I just happen to live in California, which I think should now be henceforth renamed The "We Told You So, But You Just Wouldn't Listen, Would You?" State. :rolleyes2

 

[Zé Tahir]

Nawaf, I think you are a very "liberal" muslim. Your opinion on prostitution, which I read earlier and now this clearly shows that. Tell me, where in this verse, does it say that it's optional? You are however right, that it is the womans choice whether she decides to do it or not, i.e. that no one else may interfere in her business, because it is between her and God. (Unless it's a young girl, where the parent has the righ until she reaches the age of maturity)

[24:32] And say to the believing women that they restrain their looks and guard their private parts, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment except that which is apparent thereof, and that they draw their head-coverings over their bosoms, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment save to their husbands, or to their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or women who are their companions, or those that their right hands possess, or such of male attendants as have no desire for women, or young children who have not yet attained knowledge of the hidden parts of women. And that they strike not their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may become known. And turn ye to Allah all together, O believers, that you may prosper.

@Tom: I don't understand your comment. Are you trying to create a communist society, where everyone thinks, believes, acts, etc. the same? To not have any places of worship because it "seperates" us, is like everyone has to support the same team, b/c that also "devides" us. Sorry if I've misunderstood you.

 

[/usr/bin]

Nawaf, I think you are a very "liberal" muslim. Your opinion on prostitution, which I read earlier and now this clearly shows that. Tell me, where in this verse, does it say that it's optional? You are however right, that it is the womans choice whether she decides to do it or not, i.e. that no one else may interfere in her business, because it is between her and God. (Unless it's a young girl, where the parent has the righ until she reaches the age of maturity)

Liberal? Maybe..

..and I apologize if I might've said some inaccuracies, or started some debated on whether something is right or not, but I'm saying this based on my own upbringing and the culture I'm living in.. The hijab is worn, but the burga is not required, and is said to be just old-fashioned..

 

[Zé Tahir]

A question,

If i moved to a muslim country in the middle east...

If i said i was offended by the mention of islam in school, religious symbolism etc... would it be removed so i was comfortable ?

Of course not... Thats what is being asked (and granted) in the likes of the uk and italy...

If i was offended because there wasnt a church... would these countries close down a local mosque and replace it with a churc ? of course not (again something requested and granted across the uk and italy)

If i wished for the countries religious foundations to be swept aside as i was offended by it, would that happen ?

Of course not, but is expected in italy and the uk...

Sorry but a country has no obligation to change their culture and to dumb down the virtues that country was built on jus to please people coming into the country of other beliefs...

Of course a country must give people coming in from different cultures the freedom to live along the lines of their faith, but not to change for them...

People coming in are the ones who need to compromise and fit in to the traditions and way of life of the country they wish to reside in... the country has no need to change for them, but only to allow the rifght to practice their faith

If people refuse to compromise and adapt to their new country / way of life ... well bad fvcking luck

All these questions are not valid, because most of those people who "expect" all these things are people who have saught refuge in Western Countries. To use these arguments against their country of origin is not valid at all, because they themselves have chosen to leave their country. Some, like the Shiites of Iraq, who are Muslim but didn't get rights in their country fled their country, etc.

You are right that these people do need to assimilate into society, and they should. But that doesn't mean they have to cross religious boundries.

As for churches being replaced with mosques, I've never heard this before, where did this happen? If you've read Islamic history, you would know that there was a time when places of worship were shared in areas under Islamic rule. For ex in Southern Spain, a Mosque would be a mosque during the day, and then a Church during the evening (something along those lines).

 

[Tom]

@Tom: I don't understand your comment. Are you trying to create a communist society, where everyone thinks, believes, acts, etc. the same? To not have any places of worship because it "seperates" us, is like everyone has to support the same team, b/c that also "devides" us. Sorry if I've misunderstood you.

Its much simpler than that.. oh and communism is about as far away as possible from where I stand politically so lets not go there.

I just think that we are taking this multicultural thing too far, soon parts of our country will be indistinguishable from islamic states or sikh dominated areas of india. Its just plain wrong imo, I want our original britishness to be preserved!