[ITA] Serie A 2008/2009 (51 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

English stadiums are pretty sanitized these days, Rab.

They've been cleaning up their act ever since Hillsborough.

Are they? I'm not talking about the racial abuse only my friend. Martin said something about civilized people. It's quite impossible IMO to be civilized when you have everyone in the Stadium using their middle fingers, saying words like scum, fuckface, dickface, fat pig, son of a hoe, Italian son of , Nigerian prick etc....

Plus English stadiums may have improved a bit, but we've all seen them outside of England, like in the WC 02, 06 or Euro 2000, 02. etc...

 

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[Azzurri7]

For a couple of weeks. Then people would adapt, which is what people always do, and come back. And respect the rules, because from now on they are being enforced.

It's exactly like the forum. If someone is breaking the rules you ban him. Then he has to decide what is more important to him, being on the forum or breaking rules. In 99% of cases they come back and behave better.

I get your point but I don't think it is as simple as you make it or picture it.

Don't you think had it been that simple UEFA/FIFA would be taking this same action that you're saying?

You got stadiums were 60 70 80.000 fans gather, they gather for this 90min only, i don't think it's easy at all.

 

[Raz]

No, that's just being an apologist for people who think it's okay to hurl racial abuse. If you banned every person who was involved in this behavior then within 3 weeks you would have completely eliminated it. It's that simple.

Dont think that its that simple, football is a passion sport, so if not racist, than surely insults will be hurled at the ones who doesnt perform and rival players. If you ban them too, there wont be a lot of people left then. I myself when watching alone through a stream not in a stadium sometimes cant help but to curse players, although not racist abuse, but still.

 

[JCK]

I wish Juventus would buy Balotelli.

 

[Martin]

Are they? I'm not talking about the racial abuse only my friend. Martin said something about civilized people. It's quite impossible IMO to be civilized when you have everyone in the Stadium using their middle fingers, saying words like scum, fuckface, dickface, fat pig, son of a hoe, Italian son of , Nigerian prick etc....

You misunderstood me. I didn't say we have to make the fans civilized. I would love to do that, but that's not the point here. The point is you can insult and abuse all you want, but you cannot racially abuse. There is this notion of what is acceptable and what is not and monkey chants are over the line. Aaaand you don't have them in England.

Plus English stadiums may have improved a bit, but we've all seen them outside of England, like in the WC 02, 06 or Euro 2000, 02. etc...

As for what English fans do when they leave the country, that precisely proves my point. These people are not "civilized", they are made to behave civilized under the right circumstances. Which solves your problem of "we can never change people". Which is why when they leave the country and they face laxer regulations elsewhere they return to their base behavior. This is exactly why it's the responsibility of the host to keep these animals in check.

 

[Azzurri7]

I wish we would hit Mario with a Balotelli on his head.

 

[Martin]

Dont think that its that simple, football is a passion sport, so if not racist, than surely insults will be hurled at the ones who doesnt perform and rival players. If you ban them too, there wont be a lot of people left then. I myself when watching alone through a stream not in a stadium sometimes cant help but to curse players, although not racist abuse, but still.

Exactly, and that's all we need. The minimum standards of conduct are not exactly high.

 

[Martin]

I wish Juventus would buy Balotelli.

I fear that would not work. Since he'd be in Juve colors they'd probably start loving him.

 

[Azzurri7]

Martin, you think our fans racially abused Balotelli?

 

[Martin]

I get your point but I don't think it is as simple as you make it or picture it.

Don't you think had it been that simple UEFA/FIFA would be taking this same action that you're saying?

You got stadiums were 60 70 80.000 fans gather, they gather for this 90min only, i don't think it's easy at all.

UEFA/FIFA can barely get up from a chair that's how much inertia they have. The fact that they haven't been able to do anything about it doesn't mean it can't be done. English clubs deploy lots of cameras in their stadium and they can monitor fans on an individual basis. Then they ban those who break the rules.

Stop saying it can't be done when it's BEING done.

 

[Martin]

Martin, you think our fans racially abused Balotelli?

Does it matter what I think? I didn't watch the game, but enough people alleged this to earn us a stadium ban. So there's clearly something in it isn't there. Now it could be that once again Moratti and TIM is behind this, but personally I don't blame him for everything like some people around here.

So I don't know if they did, but most likely they did.

 

[Azzurri7]

UEFA/FIFA can barely get up from a chair that's how much inertia they have. The fact that they haven't been able to do anything about it doesn't mean it can't be done. English clubs deploy lots of cameras in their stadium and they can monitor fans on an individual basis. Then they ban those who break the rules.

Stop saying it can't be done when it's BEING done.

Stop shouting

I gave the UEFA/FIFA because IMO they're the only ones capable of stopping all this. From financial point of view to their positions.

 

[Azzurri7]

Does it matter what I think? I didn't watch the game, but enough people alleged this to earn us a stadium ban. .

Of course it matters since you think Thuram is spot on with what he said.

 

[Martin]

Stop shouting

I gave the UEFA/FIFA because IMO they're the only ones capable of stopping all this. From financial point of view to their positions.

You shouted FIFA at me

Why shouldn't clubs do it on their own? Is there any reason they shouldn't?

 

[Martin]

Of course it matters since you think Thuram is spot on with what he said.

I'm saying that based on the assumption that it's true, and based on the assumption that Thuram has the right information about what happened. Neither of which I can verify.

 

[Geof]

What I don't appreciate is moving the goalposts when all of a sudden it's our fans doing it. All these years we've (I at least) have been condemning Lazio and others for monkey chants and when it's our club we say "no, that's nothing to do with racism". In your words, that's double standards.

Oh, there's double standards alright, I'll give you that. If Lazio fans (or anyone else) would've picked on Momo, we would all express our shock and disgust at what we would call racism. Doesn't mean we would be right per se though (see below).

I would think that by now it would be an established point that monkey chants are unacceptable, but all of a sudden we're back tracking on this? Why, because the fans said "we didn't mean it to be racist"?

We're not backtracking on anything. Racist chants are unacceptable full stop. The issue at stake here is whether or not the Ultras where singing racists chants. It seems to me that the answer to this is not clear cut, but I could be wrong; I mean, I'm not stupid, I know that most Ultra sections have a certain amount of right wing racists among them.

My point is that I'm tired hearing the word 'racist' whenever a black player is picked on. Nedved has been whistled during the whole match in Rome (Lazio): AFAIk no sanctions were taken and rightly so. Booing opposing players is part of the game; it's not nice, not ethical, not fair-play but it's like that. Why should we make a difference between a black Italian and a white Czech?

If the court decided, on the ground of conclusive evidence, that the chants were indeed racist, it was entitled to take the appropriate sanctions. If it decided "OMG they booed a black guy" then fuck'em.

 

[JCK]

I fear that would not work. Since he'd be in Juve colors they'd probably start loving him.

That's why I wish he would come to Juve, Turk will be the first one to eat his words.

 

[JCK]

I fear that would not work. Since he'd be in Juve colors they'd probably start loving him.

Do you know how Turk will explode?

If Juventus are like that:

Buffon
Maicon Cannavaro Chiellini De Ceglie
Kuyt Sissoko Alonso Giovinco
Amauri Balotelli​

 

[swag]

I wish we would hit Mario with a Balotelli on his head.

It's like Inter had to get a hatred magnet substitute for Materazzi's injury.

Does it matter what I think? I didn't watch the game, but enough people alleged this to earn us a stadium ban. So there's clearly something in it isn't there. Now it could be that once again Moratti and TIM is behind this, but personally I don't blame him for everything like some people around here.

So I don't know if they did, but most likely they did.

I think it would be extremely difficult to have not one person under the circumstances, whether alcohol was involved pre-game or not, go over the line under the heated situations of an Inter-Juve rivalry and a sh*t-disturber like Balotelli on the pitch.

Of course, the irony here being that juventini in the stands probably hurled a lot worse abuses at the guy. But all it takes is a mild-by-comparison racial epithet to register for any condemnation. Not to excuse that behavior, but as a society we do draw some curious lines between what's considered acceptable and unacceptable hate speech.

 

[Bjerknes]

Thuram should shut up, control his arms and mind his own business. He should receive a stadium ban for being a mercenary himself, little maggot.