Ita-Juve (2 Viewers)

[Alen]

ItalJuve? Don't we have less players actually playing for Azzurri today then before?

It's not AzzurJuve, it's ItalJuve.
More than 2/3 of our players are Italian and the fact that only 2 of them start for the average Azzurri, tells a lot how good those Juve Italians are.

 

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[JuveJay]

That's only one game, and several changes.

 

[Alen]

That's only one game, and several changes.

Still, slowly but surely, the Juve players are losing their place in the starting XI. Marchisio, Motta, Pepe...

And rightfully so I would say. If I was the coach only 3 Juve players would start for the Italian NT, 4 at most if Aquilani gets back to his old self and stops getting injured all the time.

 

[JuveJay]

It's only one game Alen, but international football is like that, the team won't change as long as it is getting results. Right now Cassani is better than Motta, that is clear. Montolivo deserves to play so that leaves Marchisio to battle with Pirlo and De Rossi, these are two players who play regardless of their form, so he's on a loser there until something drastic happens. Pepe will be in and out, we should know what his attributes are by now and it wouldn't be surprising to see him used more in away games, at home to the Faroes Prandelli is always going to use a more attacking system, even with new fullbacks. It worked pretty well, but I still see some changes, Rossi and Quagliarella seem more like impact players, Pepe is the sort to run himself into the ground.

 

[Birindelli]

As far as I see it, Buffon, Bonucci, Chiellini, Marchisio, Aquilani, Quagliarella and Iaquinta should compete for a place in the starting 11 if they're fit. Only Buffon and Chiellini are certain.

In addition to those, Motta, Lanzafame, Pepe and Del Piero could play their way into the squad and maybe a start. I don't see any teams being better than Juve in this regard. However, there are injury concerns.

The actions of Marotta are in my opinion completely correct for Juve to remain the biggest team in Italy.

(Amauri)

 

[Alen]

The actions of Marotta are in my opinion completely correct for Juve to remain the biggest team in Italy.

In what way? You mean "remain the most popular"?
Or do you mean Marotta's actions will put Juve back on top quality and success wise too?

 

[Birindelli]

Creating a stable foundation on which to build a sustainable top squad in the future all the while balancing the compromise of present and future class.

I believe a group of Italians will be the best way for Juventus to prosper, not only financially and in terms of fanbase nationally, but also from a sporting point of view. Juventus has always been an "all-Italian" team and I believe it should remain that way.

In short, I believe this Mercato is a good start for Marotta to rebuild Juventus, both on and off the field.

 

[Alen]

I believe a group of Italians will be the best way for Juventus to prosper, not only financially and in terms of fanbase nationally, but also from a sporting point of view.

But why from a sporting point of view? Don't you think that we'll be going backwards instead of forwards, as the other big teams do who give priority to quality than to nationality?

Juventus has always been an "all-Italian" team and I believe it should remain that way.

I don't know how relevant this is.
For almost a century Juve have not been more Italian than Inter, Milan, Roma, Napoli or Genoa, simply because there was a rule that didn't allow any European team to have more than 3 foreigners. Juve, just like the other Italian teams, always had these 2-3 foreigners so we weren't really more Italian than the other Italian teams.

In the mid 90's teams were allowed to have more and more foreigners and Juve followed that trend too. In our successfull years in the late 90's and mid 2000's we had seasons with more than 50% foreigners. For example, in the pre-calciopoli 2004/05 season we had 13 foreigners in the 25 men squad.
So were we ever really more Italian than the other Italian teams (with the exception of post 1995 Inter)?

Yes, we generally gave more NT players than the other Italian teams (but not always), but we didn't have more Italian players in our team. Actually, we were traditionally one of the 3-4 Italian teams that had the highest number of non-Italian players.

What makes you think that if we now go back to the pre-mid 90's traditions (which were typical for the entire European football) we will be more successful than teams who do the exact opposite and go for quality, without looking at nationality?

 

[Sadomin]

This had me thinking, how many Italian players have we had for the past 10 years with the status of Zidane, Trezeguet and Nedved and as well-loved as the latter duo?

I can only think of Del Piero and Buffon. Foreigners win.

 

[Birindelli]

There is the option to go for both quality and nationality. The best 11 players doesn't make the best team, it needs a synergy effect I believe is easier to achieve when there is group of players with the same attitudes and ideals about football. In my opinion Italians know the Italian game of calcio better than anyone else, which is why I believe Italians are better suited for Serie A success, which is what I want for Juventus.

By "all-Italian" I meant the most popular team in Italy.

For me, a Juventus with e.g. 11 guys from 11 different countries playing a "continental" style of football, is completely irrelevant and less than interesting. That is ofcourse to take it to the extreme.

I don't think there's only one way to success. I think Juve can be as successful as in the 90's without resorting to an Inter-kind of approach. They bought a lot of quality players from '95 to '05, but never achieved anything. Instead of focusing on the names of the players, Juventus should focus on how the team works together as a unit. I believe a big group of Italians, spiced up with some suitable talent from other parts of the world, would be the way to go in future.

And you're absolutely right about the Genoas and Napolis, they're atleast as Italian as Juve. However, they're no where near as successful and popular, but I'm sure we both know and agree on that point.

 

[Birindelli]

This had me thinking, how many Italian players have we had for the past 10 years with the status of Zidane, Trezeguet and Nedved and as well-loved as the latter duo?

I can only think of Del Piero and Buffon. Foreigners win.

Ferrara, Conte, Inzaghi, Camoranesi(accepted as Italian?), Chiellini, Zambrotta, Vialli and more. Italians win :scarf:

 

[Alen]

Quality wins. Be it Italian or non-Italian quality.

And ok, I can finally accept the fact that we have so many average Italian players for the reason that we couldn't buy top quality and when choosing between Italian average player vs Foreign average player we chose the Italian. Ok, it happened, so be it.
But I don't agree with opinions like the one the member Birindelli presented that we need to remain the "All Italian" team. If it's quality, go for it no matter where it originates from.

And as things stand (lack of potential in Italian youth football) then I'm afraid that I will be against an ItalJuve in the next 4-5 years simply because I don't see bright future for it.

Edit: I wrote the above before reading your last post, Birindelli. I agree with many of your points in the last post, but still, if there is lack of Italian quality players, a core of Italians won't do us much good.

 

[Sadomin]

Ferrara, Conte, Inzaghi, Camoranesi(accepted as Italian?), Chiellini, Zambrotta, Vialli and more. Italians win :scarf:

Are you saying Inzaghi and Zambrotta are loved by the Juventus fans?

Conte and Ferrara belong to a different generation. Not to mention Vialli.

Chiellini and Camoranesi are great, but do not enjoy the status of those I mentioned.

My point remains: out of the 5 best Juventus players of the past decade, 3 were foreign.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Are you saying Inzaghi and Zambrotta are loved by the Juventus fans?

Conte and Ferrara belong to a different generation. Not to mention Vialli.

Chiellini and Camoranesi are great, but do not enjoy the status of those I mentioned.

My point remains: out of the 5 best Juventus players of the past decade, 3 were foreign.

vialli wasnt that big of a juventus icon

 

[Alen]

On second thought, I can actually imagine a successful Juve with a core of Italian players, if by that we understand some 5 Italians in the starting XI and some other Italians for the bench.

There aren't many quality Italian players right now, but a team that has Buffon, Bonucci, Chiellini, Aquilani (?) and Cassano can actually do very good if the other 6 are also quality players. As a matter of fact in the last decade, pre-Calciopoli, that is the number of Italians we usually had in the starting XI. 4,5 or 6 quality Italian players + quality foreigners.
But I can't see who of those other 6 will be Italian. With Pirlo, De Rossi and Balotelli you end up with names of quality Italian players, and those three will not play for Juve.

We must act smart. If we do, in the end we can satisfy everyone. The ones who want to keep the Italian traditions will still have a good number of Italians in the team, while the ones who aren't really interested in the nationality of the players and simply want quality, will get their quality team.

 

[JuveJay]

Quality wins. Be it Italian or non-Italian quality.

int:

 

[Boksic]

I think it is important to have a solid domestic base in your team, they know what it means to the fans more and understand the league and culture. Only Inter have managed to win the league without a strong domestic spine to the team in a major league.

But what Juventus have done in recent years takes it too far, 3 or 4 Italians mabe, not a team full of them for the sake of it.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Quality wins. Be it Italian or non-Italian quality.

And ok, I can finally accept the fact that we have so many average Italian players for the reason that we couldn't buy top quality and when choosing between Italian average player vs Foreign average player we chose the Italian. Ok, it happened, so be it.
But I don't agree with opinions like the one the member Birindelli presented that we need to remain the "All Italian" team. If it's quality, go for it no matter where it originates from.

And as things stand (lack of potential in Italian youth football) then I'm afraid that I will be against an ItalJuve in the next 4-5 years simply because I don't see bright future for it.

Edit: I wrote the above before reading your last post, Birindelli. I agree with many of your points in the last post, but still, if there is lack of Italian quality players, a core of Italians won't do us much good.

Agree with most of your post.. But it bothers me when people say, that Italy lacks potential in youth football. I agree with Baggio when he says: "The potential is there, but we don't use it". I believe the problem are the old conservative managers. Italy lack the kinds of Prandelli and Spalletti.

The last 10 years, Italy have always been one of the best U21 teams in Europe. When Germany won the U21 Uefa Euro, Italy outplayed them even though they lost 1-0. But at this World Cup I think it was only Marchisio who made it to the NT (he was not even the star at the U21 back then). The situation with Germany was the opposite.

 

[Bjerknes]

Quality wins. Be it Italian or non-Italian quality.

That should be the mantra, really.

I believe it's best to have a good combination of both Italian and foreign players. It doesn't make sense to not tap into the local talent. But if we had more foreign players than Italians, as long as we were successful, it wouldn't matter.

We are basically a multinational corporation as it is, no reason to hide that.

 

[JuveJay]

If the club could have the same success with XI Italians or XI players with different nationalities what would you choose?