Israeli-Palestinian conflict (78 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


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Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,899
Israel is Goliath here.

I know they like to pretend they're David, but they're not. And if you are the stronger power and you in fact occupy territories, that comes with responsibility.

People go soft on Hamas (wrongfully I may add), because Hamas were born out of resistance. And people identify with resistance to a foreign power.

What bothers me too is that Hamas and Palestine are equated. If Israel puts forward decent offers and presents them to Hamas, it will take power away from Hamas if they decline. What doesn't take power away is terrorizing millions of citizens, who will now breed new Hamas members.

But what really gets me is that Israel knows all of this. Imo they are intentionally keeping both Hamas and the conflict alive, because, in all honesty, they believe they have more to gain from the conflict than peace. The Israeli leaders probably love Hamas at this point.

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That's an incredibly naive statement. No offense but I think you're so much in a western democracy bubble that you have no idea how militaristic despotic regimes work.
 

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Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
@Tomice

This post hits a lot of what I’m thinking lately.
We had the York University student unions release statements immediately following the Hamas attack stating basically that “this is what decolonization looks like” and it was “a strong act of resistance” and outright supporting Hamas and blaming Israel 100% for the 10/7 attack. Even more amusing/sad is that expressed support for such violent attacks also happening in Canada/USA by the indigenous.

It’s somewhat mind-boggling when I get told that everyone is just Pro-Palestinians, pro-two state solution, etc. Because half of the statements put out by these student groups, a very vocal (probably) minority at these protests are overtly and loudly pro-Hamas.

For those who doubt the above, here’s the link to the York University student Union statement. There are a lot of young people in academia voicing this trash.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...00/Statement+of+Solidarity+with+Palestine.pdf

“Settler-colonial states like so-called Canada” :sergio: :lol2:

These kids are fucking idiots.
 

BayernFan

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2016
7,124
@Tomice

This post hits a lot of what I’m thinking lately.
We had the York University student unions release statements immediately following the Hamas attack stating basically that “this is what decolonization looks like” and it was “a strong act of resistance” and outright supporting Hamas and blaming Israel 100% for the 10/7 attack. Even more amusing/sad is that expressed support for such violent attacks also happening in Canada/USA by the indigenous.

It’s somewhat mind-boggling when I get told that everyone is just Pro-Palestinians, pro-two state solution, etc. Because half of the statements put out by these student groups, a very vocal (probably) minority at these protests are overtly and loudly pro-Hamas.

For those who doubt the above, here’s the link to the York University student Union statement. There are a lot of young people in academia voicing this trash.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...00/Statement+of+Solidarity+with+Palestine.pdf

“Settler-colonial states like so-called Canada” :sergio: :lol2:

These kids are fucking idiots.
Far lefties has never been the brighest really.

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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
That's an incredibly naive statement. No offense but I think you're so much in a western democracy bubble that you have no idea how militaristic despotic regimes work.
What a patronizing statement to make.

You believe Palestinians don't care more about their everyday problems than the eradication of Israel or whatever Hamas wants to happen?

Palestinians are people. People want food, security and opportunity to better themselves. If that happens without Hamas, they'll be happy.

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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
I find it amusing when people make the argument that the protests and rallies are just pro-Palestine and no one is pro-Hamas/promoting the destruction of the Israeli nation.

And then I see things like this happening and getting cheered just over in Vancouver.



Disgusting.
I can only speak for what I see and I see no one in my environment or on my insta or whatever promoting Hamas.

All I see is people who find it difficult that Israel imposes such suffering on Palestinian civilians. And they are right.

This is going to set Israel back for a long time to come.

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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
It's a valid argument that I can agree with but the last part.

First you are right but I don't think it's neccesserily pretending with an intent as you my conclude, some of it maybe. israelis are captives of this mentality, in part due to being a persecuted minority for over a millenia and for still viewing the conflict in it's broader sense as an arab-israeli one. It is what it is unfortunately and we do "use" it, I just think we really do have it, for an outsider looking in it may seem crazy I understand.

I also completely understand people supporting the underdog, would have probably done the same In their shoes. There is a reason Robin Hood is such a classic tale, I think most good people are brought up to want to help the weak and unfortunate, it a buetifully human thing.

On the last part, people tend to forget, not consider or purposely ignore that Israel is like any other democratic country were politicians will do anything to stay in power, goverments come and go, public opinion and support ebb and flow and policies and decisions are not set in stone. Also Israelis are not special, the common idiot is still the common idiot who still gets to vote.

I agree this government gains more from the conflict, bibi can't lead any other type of government and will lose his remaining base even with any vague 2 state solution suggestion. But the peace process died not because of him, it died due to the bad Palestinian decisions between 95' to 08' imo, we can disagree who at fault but my point is that bibi used that to get elected and kept using that to get re-elected.

Please don't equate what this and other governments under Bibi want and what Israel as a country wants. This is the dynamic nature of democratic countries. The fact that we do badly now is not neccesserily a testament that we will always when the other side is also willing. The stage for restarting the peace process is not there this moment, or the last 10 years sadly. hopefully after this Bibi will be gone and he will, that day will come again.
Great post.

You are right.

It would be easy to portray Israelis as evil or even unkind. They are no such thing. They are most likely not that different from Palestinians. We tend to forget that there are normal people on both sides and that they are the vast majority.

But my main idea is that the Israeli government will have some benefit of keeping the conflict ongoing, because nothing that they do is constructive towards a solution. And they must realise as much.

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Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
I can only speak for what I see and I see no one in my environment or on my insta or whatever promoting Hamas.

All I see is people who find it difficult that Israel imposes such suffering on Palestinian civilians. And they are right.

This is going to set Israel back for a long time to come.

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I posted the York University Student Unions’ statement above. This PhD lady at a rally in Vancouver getting cheered for calling October 7th brilliant and amazing. The crowds in Sydney chanting “gas the Jews” weeks ago. The use of “From the River to the Sea” at all these rallies which implies the destruction of the state of Israel. Academics and students all over being pro-Hamas because “white colonial settler states” and “decolonization.” People tearing down posters of the Hamas held hostages. It’s not as rare as you are making it out to be.

Israel should be criticized for what it’s doing/has done. So should Palestine. Which has been part of the group of Islamic peoples/nations attacking Israel and its right to exist since the 40s. The PLO was founded as a terrorist org in 1964 with the express goal of eliminating the Israeli nation. This was before the West Bank was occupied. Its acts of terrorism and the aggression of surrounding Arab nations was the reason for the 1967 war and the occupation of the West Bank in the first place.

While this doesn’t excuse Israeli crimes today, let’s stop pretending that the Palestinian people and surrounding Arab nations haven’t been attacking Israel since it came to be.
 
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Jun 16, 2020
12,435

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I find it amusing when people make the argument that the protests and rallies are just pro-Palestine and no one is pro-Hamas/promoting the destruction of the Israeli nation.

And then I see things like this happening and getting cheered just over in Vancouver.



Disgusting.
Pro-Hamas sentiment here aswel. Its not the standard but it happens. This shit worries me a lot

 
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BayernFan

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2016
7,124
I posted the York University Student Unions’ statement above. This PhD lady at a rally in Vancouver getting cheered for calling October 7th brilliant and amazing. The crowds in Sydney chanting “gas the Jews” weeks ago. The use of “From the River to the Sea” at all these rallies which implies the destruction of the state of Israel. Academics and students all over being pro-Hamas because “white colonial settler states” and “decolonization.” People tearing down posters of the Hamas held hostages. It’s not as rare as you are making it out to be.

Israel should be criticized for what it’s doing/has done. So should Palestine. Which has been part of the group of Islamic peoples/nations attacking Israel and its right to exist since the 40s. The PLO was founded as a terrorist org in 1964 with the express goal of eliminating the Israeli nation. This was before the West Bank was occupied. Its acts of terrorism and the aggression of surrounding Arab nations was the reason for the 1967 war and the occupation of the West Bank in the first place.

While this doesn’t excuse Israeli crimes today, let’s stop pretending that the Palestinian people haven’t been attacking Israel since it came to be.
Spot on. :tup:

Many pro pallys are oblivious to those historic events. They often say Hamas wasn’t born in a vacuum, but the same goes for the Israeli stance. When you’re sorrounded by neighbours who wants to see you eradicated it’s quite difficult not to become disturbed yourself.
 
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