Israeli-Palestinian conflict (72 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Fr3sh

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2011
36,953
They embrace the idea, not the german superiority itself.;) btw I may be a bulgarian, but i am blonde with blue eyes, meaning i would have been fit for germanisation by our Nazi allies.btw At the end of the day however i wouldn't have hated minorities so much if they stayed in their own countries.
Yo imma come visit Bulgaria, introduce me to your female family members. I don't remember ever banging a Bulgarian, just for that occasion i'll make sure to not put on a rubber. Hopefully you'll get a new sibling\niece\grandchild\etc
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,389
Yo imma come visit Bulgaria, introduce me to your female family members. I don't remember ever banging a Bulgarian, just for that occasion i'll make sure to not put on a rubber. Hopefully you'll get a new sibling\niece\grandchild\etc

:D the best solution to teach him a lesson about going full retard regarding minorities and immigrants.

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I won't.The muslims will lose they have no choice.BTW White man does not need numerical superiority, to rule the world.
i cant be bothered to type in response to yr posts, this is to the white man non sense you keep blah blah about
 

Maddy

Oracle of Copenhagen
Jul 10, 2009
16,541
:lol:
Sounds fun. What's the group called? :D
ehm.. after some research I found out that there were no such thing, so ehm.. ive decided to establish it myself. theres just a couple of major issues. like me being white (real white not mfdoom 'white') and male (real male not hustini 'male'). so if anyone knows a black woman preferably a dyke and militaristic, please let me know.

it will be the resurgence of the combahee river collective
 
Nov 17, 2012
3,030
You misunderstand me, your entire nation is a post-soviet skidmark.
Does that account for the entire former east-bloc or just Bulgaria?

What do you think of dark skinned, black/brown eyed Southern Italians? White enough?
Bedouini? :p I guess being a Sicilian would be by default being a mongrel Greek/Poeni/Roman/Arab/Norman/Spanish mongrel, whether you could possibly call that 'white' is anyone's guess; as for the rest of Southern Italy, I think they are somewhat less ethnically diverse.

a closet jew with deep relations to his milkman (suspicious) and a wannabe nazi who wishes he was really a one but is a huge failure in life

awesome thread
It delivers! :D

Interesting it is illegal to talk $#@! about Ataturk... That's just crazy, wtf kind of country does something like that?
A country that considers itself, its past conduct, and its viewpoint of history above criticism and reproach... An obvious hallmark of a just, honest and fair society right there..


I should note that he goes into much more detail about the massacres committed by Abdul Hamid II in the 19th century. But the book is a history of the Ottoman Empire, and he considered the empire ended when the Young Turks deposed Abdul Hamid II in 1909. He rather briefly sums up the Turkish involvement in the First World War and doesn't say much more than I posted about the massacres of 1915.
@Juve Vinny You should read a book called 'Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance'.

I do disagree with his methodology though, the Armenian "genocide" has almost nothing in common with the holocaust. If you want to call any type of disorganized massacres a genocide then the word becomes irrelevant.

The way I see it, a genocide is a deliberate attempt by a central government to completely eradicate a people in a systematic way. The massacre of the Armenians does not fall in that category.

Why then did the Turkish government bother to deport the Armenians from sensitive areas to the Armenian homeland to prevent killings?
1: Well that is why, from my understanding, the genocide orchestrated by the 3rd Reich against Jews in Europe is commonly referred to as the 'Holocaust'; whilst the Armenian genocide is just that, a 'Genocide' by definitional. However, merely calling it an 'Armenian' genocide really does artificially limit the scope of the massacre conducted by the Turks in Asia Minor; approximately an equal number of Greeks perished at this time, as well as countless Kurds, Assyrians and other Christian Arab communities that resided in the carcass of the Ottoman Empire during this period.
2: Maybe the deportation was a pretext to the systematic execution of these minority communities (who's respective existence, for the record, pre-dated the Turks in the region by over a thousand years). If what happened to the Greeks/Armenians/Kurds in Turkey wasn't a genocide, then I don't know what is... Even Hitler referred to as much in his book Mein Kampf, and that bloke knew a thing or two about genocides himself..

The ideal of historical legacy of crimes is one of the most backward ways of thinking. This is totally unrelated to the Armenian genocide because that is still an unresolved issue today, but where should we draw the line? If Turks today should feel sorry about what happened in the 14th century and onwards, how should the German today feel only 70 years after WW2? Was the fall of the Berlin wall even a positive thing when thinking about it, since the generations after 1945 inherit the guilt of their predecessors - shouldn't we just have given Germany the post WW1 treatment again?

I don't know how you can justify historical legacy of crimes, especially since the notion of nations and 'people' is a fairly modern one.

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Genocide doesn't have to be restricted just to killing. Every able bodies Armenian man (and other minorities mind you - the Greek got the same treatment ) was either killed outright or worn down by physical labour. Women and children were just deported and the weak and elderly were forced to go on death marches into the Syrian desert. If that ain't a genocide, then I have no $#@!ing idea what is.
1: In what sense do you mean when you say that
The ideal of historical legacy of crimes is one of the most backward ways of thinking.
? In my opinion, it is in denying responsibility, refuting fact, and shying away from the realities of historical occurrence whilst indoctrinating an entire nation of peoples to think a certain way about a given topic is a far more backward way of thinking.. Given that Turkey has laws that prohibit criticism of Ataturk, and Turkey itself, is an eminently obvious indicator that as a country, Turkey is not willing to look at themselves in the mirror and not only confess their collective wrong doing, but to also admit to a failed policy of grand delusion, coupled with a total lack of responsibility in accepting its dark past, just as Germany was forced to post WWII.

2: The notion of 'nations' and 'people' being a modern one is not true my friend. You could say maybe patriotism, and nationalism (in their modern forms) are an innovation of the modern era (post renaissance) absolutely. However, one doesn't have to look far to see that peoples and civilisations of the past, had no issue at all in distinguishing themselves from others. The Egyptians were one of the first, then the Greeks, closely followed by the Romans thought themselves heads and shoulders above their barbarous neighbours; even in the Orient, the Chinese considered themselves distinct from their more uncultured northern neighbours. For as long as communities of peoples have existed, they have attempting (with some justification) to draw distinctions (both accurate and inaccurate) between themselves and others, it is not trivial in any way, just a truth of history; the very term 'Barbarian' and its application by ancient writers itself speaks volumes in relation to this point.


It was carried out by irregulars and the government tried to restrict the killings. Hence, it does not qualify as a genocide the way I see it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Islam_(Ottoman_Empire)

Not since reading "A Short History of the World" by Roberts have I seen the historical method $#@!d harder and more brutally. You just can't put forth an argument like this.

Turks today should apologise for the 'crimes' of the Ottoman Empire, and empire void of any nationalistic sentiments? And just because Turkey as a state today doesn't recognise the Armenian holocaust, why would that even be mentioned in a conversation about Israel and Palestine?

If you want to make coherent arguments you should turn off the history channel and read some god damn books.
With all respect mate I do read books; I've just moved house recently but I have read books that canvass these issues. 'Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance' by Giles Milton, as some background regarding Byzantine-Turkish backgrounds I read 'Byzantium' by Judith Herrin as well as 'A History of the Arab Peoples' by Albert Hourani and 'A Brief History of the Crusades: Islam and Christianity in the Struggle for World Supremacy' by Geoffrey Hindley. Sorry I can't be more in depth as the majority of my literature is still in boxes, however I find it ludicrous to see that Germany was forced to search for it's very soul, and sought repentance from the world for its heinous crimes, yet Turkey not only fails in this, but pretends that such a thing never happened. I'm sorry but such a stance is intellectually dishonest to its very core! You may criticise the content of my post, and perhaps even its perspective, but you cannot say what I stated before was historically incorrect; which in the end, is what matters.

In the end it is a reality of geo-politics, as well as attempting to bring a degree of historical integrity into the argument of Israel/Palestine. The Israel/Palestine scenario is not one which is simple, easy or clear-cut, nor should it be made overly trivial or contrived (which I fear a great amount of the debate regarding this topic is); also, people's scope of it is too small when regarding Israel and it's neighbours. One must see things from a broader cultural and geographical perspective, that in order to draw an accurate conclusion, one cannot just look at a map of Israel/Judea/Palestine, but to look at it in the broader context of it as a struggle between Christian culture/peoples, Islamic culture/peoples and Jewish culture/peoples, and likewise, it existing as an immense and prolonged struggle between Christian, Muslim and Jewish worlds. Trivialise my statements to your hearts content, but you cannot take away the truth that lies within the broader context of the topic.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,446
Does that account for the entire former east-bloc or just Bulgaria?


Bedouini? :p I guess being a Sicilian would be by default being a mongrel Greek/Poeni/Roman/Arab/Norman/Spanish mongrel, whether you could possibly call that 'white' is anyone's guess; as for the rest of Southern Italy, I think they are somewhat less ethnically diverse.



It delivers! :D


A country that considers itself, its past conduct, and its viewpoint of history above criticism and reproach... An obvious hallmark of a just, honest and fair society right there..




@Juve Vinny You should read a book called 'Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance'.



1: Well that is why, from my understanding, the genocide orchestrated by the 3rd Reich against Jews in Europe is commonly referred to as the 'Holocaust'; whilst the Armenian genocide is just that, a 'Genocide' by definitional. However, merely calling it an 'Armenian' genocide really does artificially limit the scope of the massacre conducted by the Turk in Anatolia; approximately an equal number of Greeks perished at this time, as well as countless Kurds, Assyrians and other Christian Arab communities that resided in the carcass of the Ottoman Empire at that time.
2: Maybe the deportation was a pretext to the systematic execution of these minority communities (who's respective existence, for the record, pre-dated the Turks in the region by over a thousand years). If what happened to the Greeks/Armenians/Kurds in Turkey wasn't a genocide, then I don't know what is... Even Hitler referred to as much in his book Mein Kampf, and that bloke knew a thing or two about genocides himself..



1: In what sense do you mean when you say that ? In my opinion, it is in denying responsibility, refuting fact, and shying away from the realities of historical occurrence whilst indoctrinating an entire nation of peoples to think a certain way about a given topic is a far more backward way of thinking.. Given that Turkey has laws that prohibit criticism of Ataturk, and Turkey itself, is an eminently obvious indicator that as a country, Turkey is not willing to look at themselves in the mirror and not only confess their collective wrong doing, but to also admit to a failed policy of grand delusion, coupled with a total lack of responsibility in accepting its dark past, just as Germany was forced to post WWII.

2: The notion of 'nations' and 'people' being a modern one is not true my friend. You could say maybe patriotism, and nationalism (in their modern forms) are an innovation of the modern era (post renaissance) absolutely. However, one doesn't have to look far to see that peoples and civilisations of the past, had no issue at all in distinguishing themselves from others. The Egyptians were one of the first, then the Greeks, closely followed by the Romans thought themselves heads and shoulders above their barbarous neighbours; even in the Orient, the Chinese considered themselves distinct from their more uncultured northern neighbours. For as long as communities of peoples have existed, they have attempting (with some justification) to draw distinctions (both accurate and inaccurate) between themselves and others, it is not trivial in any way, just a truth of history; the very term 'Barbarian' and its application by ancient writers itself speaks volumes in relation to this point.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Islam_(Ottoman_Empire)



With all respect mate I do read books; I've just moved house recently but I have read books that canvass that issue. 'Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance' by Giles Milton, as some background regarding Byzantine-Turkish backgrounds I read 'Byzantium' by Judith Herrin as well as 'A History of the Arab Peoples' by Albert Hourani and 'A Brief History of the Crusades: Islam and Christianity in the Struggle for World Supremacy' by Geoffrey Hindley. Sorry I can't be more in depth as the majority of my literature is still in boxes, however I find it ludicrous to see that Germany was forced to search for it's very soul, and sought repentance from the world for its heinous crimes, yet Turkey not only fails in this, but pretends that such a thing never happened. I'm sorry but such a stance is intellectually dishonest to its very core! You may criticise the content of my post, and perhaps even its perspective, but you cannot say what I stated before was historically incorrect; which in the end, is what matters.

In the end it is a reality of geo-politics, as well as attempting to bring a degree of historical integrity into the argument of Israel/Palestine. The Israel/Palestine scenario is not one which is simple, easy or clear-cut, nor should it be made overly trivial or contrived (which I fear a great amount of the debate regarding this topic is); also, people's scope of it is too small when regarding Israel and it's neighbours. One must see things from a broader cultural and geographical perspective, that in order to draw an accurate conclusion, one cannot just look at a map of Israel/Judea/Palestine, but to look at it in the broader context of it as a struggle between Christian culture/peoples, Islamic culture/peoples and Jewish culture/peoples, and likewise, it existing as an immense and prolonged struggle between Christian, Muslim and Jewish worlds. Trivialise my statements to your hearts content, but you cannot take away the truth that lies within the broader context of the topic.
on one side you lament indoctrination and on the other you use heavily biased nomenclature of historical events as the body of your argument, also hows hitler historically qualified to talk about turkey? the only truth i see in your take on the topic is your extreme bias.
 
Nov 17, 2012
3,030
on one side you lament indoctrination and on the other you use heavily biased nomenclature of historical events as the body of your argument, also hows hitler historically qualified to talk about turkey? the only truth i see in your take on the topic is your extreme bias.

Care to not be so general? Without specifics your accusation doesn't carry weight my friend.. I obviously have an interpretation of history and truth, in the end however facts do speak for themselves when discussing matters of the past. Also, I never stated that Hitler was qualified to talk about Turkey, but suggested that he was in a position in which he would come to understand what comprised a genocide, considering he went on to wage a pretty effective one himself. I believe you're intentionally misrepresenting my words; as well, how you describe, or at least define my so-called apparent 'heavily biased nomenclature of historical events'; I have stated events as they occurred, what fault is there in that?

People are able to have a view, that's both obvious and normal; however rather than just dismissing someone as being 'bias', I at least attempt to rebuke someone's view with a logical counter-argument of my own.. Just saying that I'm bias doesn't really say much at all to be honest, and how is my 'bias' a truth? Bias is an opinion or a view-point, calling it truth is misrepresenting the notion of the entire argument.
 

Linebreak

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2009
16,021
Sooner or later the Israelis will go back to whence they originally came from, Europe.

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Care to not be so general? Without specifics your accusation doesn't carry weight my friend.. I obviously have an interpretation of history and truth, in the end however facts do speak for themselves when discussing matters of the past. Also, I never stated that Hitler was qualified to talk about Turkey, but suggested that he was in a position in which he would come to understand what comprised a genocide, considering he went on to wage a pretty effective one himself. I believe you're intentionally misrepresenting my words; as well, how you describe, or at least define my so-called apparent 'heavily biased nomenclature of historical events'; I have stated events as they occurred, what fault is there in that?

People are able to have a view, that's both obvious and normal; however rather than just dismissing someone as being 'bias', I at least attempt to rebuke someone's view with a logical counter-argument of my own.. Just saying that I'm bias doesn't really say much at all to be honest, and how is my 'bias' a truth? Bias is an opinion or a view-point, calling it truth is misrepresenting the notion of the entire argument.
Hitler being used as a source? lol.

Are you comparing the situation of the Jews under Hitler to that of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire under WW1 conditions?

The Armenians were armed and trained by the Russians. The Jews were completely unarmed and targeted for being Jews. Big difference right there.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,446
Care to not be so general? Without specifics your accusation doesn't carry weight my friend.. I obviously have an interpretation of history and truth, in the end however facts do speak for themselves when discussing matters of the past. Also, I never stated that Hitler was qualified to talk about Turkey, but suggested that he was in a position in which he would come to understand what comprised a genocide, considering he went on to wage a pretty effective one himself. I believe you're intentionally misrepresenting my words; as well, how you describe, or at least define my so-called apparent 'heavily biased nomenclature of historical events'; I have stated events as they occurred, what fault is there in that?

People are able to have a view, that's both obvious and normal; however rather than just dismissing someone as being 'bias', I at least attempt to rebuke someone's view with a logical counter-argument of my own.. Just saying that I'm bias doesn't really say much at all to be honest, and how is my 'bias' a truth? Bias is an opinion or a view-point, calling it truth is misrepresenting the notion of the entire argument.
where do you see accusations? have you not used biased terms such as "the genocide", what's scientific there? where are these proofs have you provided besides this flimsy basis that this killing was indeed systematic and engineered? As for your assumption on hitler what would make him an expert on genocide before he even became president since all historical data showed that up until 1940 there was no such thing as the final solution.
where did i say that your bias is truth, i think if you took the time to read correctly you'd actually understand what i meant.
 
Nov 17, 2012
3,030
Granted the final solution, as we know it, wasn't conceived as a plan until the early 40's. However that plan was born out of an already established discrimination and outright hatred fuelled by eugenicist and ideological propaganda, evil deeds are usually the ; dare I say I think you're quibbling with already well established, and commonly accepted fact. I would find it mildly amusing that the French would pass a bill in their parliament to deny something, that according to you, and others, didn't actually exist, I'm sure, for all the faults present in a nation's political class, that the French would have checked the 'facts' before passing such a law. The Russian Duma also passed legislation in 1994 that recognised the occurrence of the Armenian Genocide, though denying it in Russia is not a crime, unlike in France. If you don't mind me asking, what makes you doubt, or what evidence have you come across that leads you to believe no genocide in fact occurred?

Also, how is genocide a bias term? It is a term that describes an action, no more and no less. Following that path of logic, do you likewise think that people who acknowledge the holocaust are inherently biased against Germans?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-living-proof-of-the-armenian-genocide-1918367.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/photograph-links-germans-to-1915-armenia-genocide-8219537.html
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/genocide.html
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=UgzAi1DD75wC&pg=PA270&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.se/books?id=4mug9LrpLKcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Massacres,+Resistance,+Protectors&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50612F63A5512738DDDA10A94DC405B898CF1D3
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50C10F93C5A15738DDDAC0A94DC405B898CF1D3
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10C13F83C5512738FDDAD0994D1405B858DF1D3
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9802E6D71E3EE033A2575BC1A96E9C946496D6CF
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F00C17F73C5F13738DDDA10894D0405B868DF1D3
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F70A1FFC395C13738DDDAA0A94DA405B858DF1D3
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/02/opinion/l-armenian-genocide-cannot-be-denied-092266.html










Sooner or later the Israelis will go back to whence they originally came from, Europe.

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Hitler being used as a source? lol.

Are you comparing the situation of the Jews under Hitler to that of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire under WW1 conditions?

The Armenians were armed and trained by the Russians. The Jews were completely unarmed and targeted for being Jews. Big difference right there.
1: They were in Europe because they were originally expelled from Judea by the Romans between after two major uprisings under Emperors Vespasian and Hadrian in the 1st and 2nd century AD respectively. After the mass expulsion of Jews from Jerusalem and Judea they were scattered to many corners of the Empire, and in some cases, beyond.
2: I see no reason for the lol'ing tbh.. Given what Hitler inflicted upon the Jews in Europe, I would consider the man qualified knowing how to conduct a genocide and what would comprise of one, he saw the treatment of the Amenians by the Turks as an inspiration to his own final solution. That is no laughing matter... :(
 

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