Israeli-Palestinian conflict (61 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
Hey, I'm Anti-Zionist for sure! It's just I can't really form an opinion about what's going on atm since I haven't watched the news for ages. Beside, my country isn't exactly in the center of the debate even if I consider all involved countries as my land 
Warning: This post was not intently made to compete with Chxta...It grew without any previous planning.
First, Ahmed, please try to differentiate between you and the Egyptian government in your coming posts (I mean try not to use "we" as a proverb for you and the Egyptian government together" because you simply may have some objections to their decisions. You are not a representative of Egyptian government here, Are you? I'm asking you this because I don't want my criticism to the Egyptian government to be considered on you by any way.
Where did the article say that those vehicles were not for food and medicine??
If the rules are wrong, should we obey them just because they are rules?? Pardon me, Ahmed, but I don't like that logic. I totally understand that it is your country and you have to defend it and defend its rules as much as you can, but defend it from what?? From drugs and weapons coming from Gaza? Do you really think that Gaza can produce these things originally? Where will Gaza have drugs and weapons from as it is isolated from the whole world, no place to plant drugs and no factories for weapons?
I never said other Arab governments are better, but no one of them forbids food and medicine to get into Palestine.
Ok, you are saying that Arabs should have tried, but in the reality Arabs, other than Egypt, have tried since 1991 to go in the peace process. Israel was always not taking them seriously as it knew they can not fight it, so there is no point in giving them anything in lieu of the lands. We all saw that:
1- Egypt got Sinai back, but without a real authority. Sinai is well-protected by Egyptian soldiers to protect Israel from the west. Israel does not want more than that. It is desert, anyway, and not that important region to take control of. Egypt presents gas to Israel as a gift with less than its production cost since more than 20 years. Those factories which uses Egyptian gas are the factories that make the Israeli weapons.
2- Don't tell me Jordan made something out of the peace process, because simply it did not. Jordan got back few kilometers in Baqura region but is forced to protect hundreds of kilometers with Israel from the east. Jordan is begging to take water each year from Israel, and Israel uses water as a way to make pressure on Jordan in order to keep calm all the time and not refuse anything made by Israelis. Jordan has no resources at all, so alone, Jordan is not considered an independent country, and consequently can do nothing on the world map except "fighting terrorism".
3- Palestinian authority: They got nothing from peace process too. For more, please see the current situation in the West Bank and Gaza. make more focus on refugees, settlements and Jerusalem.
4- other countries like Qatar, Oman, Morocco, and Mauritania: No comment about what they got from their peace process.
Well, all the countries in the region took part in the relevant wars, not only Egypt, so do all the countries deserve to be central countries? If so, where will we bring non-central countries to the region from?
Egypt does not help Palestinians to unite now, Ahmed. It helps corrupt Fateh to keep ruling the Palestinians using force, and tries to enforce what Fateh wants on Hamas. It is not a neutral country. I mean the government here.
On the other hand, we know that Egyptian normal people really want unity in Palestine, and we really appreciate that.
Nice question:
1- To allow food and medicine to get into Gaza.
2- To allow sick people to leave Gaza to get their medical treatments whenever needed, not once each three months.
3- To stop supporting Abbas's corrupt authority against the well of the majority which elected Hamas.
4- To free all the Palestinian prisoners in Egypt, or at least not hurting them.
5- To stop its coordination with Israel to gather information about resistants in Gaza by interrogating people from Gaza.
6- To stop exporting gas to Israel.
I won't ask them to send weapons to free Palestine, Ahmed. Don't worry, but I think the previous requests are reasonable.
You said that the justification is not logical at all. I replied on this point above.
That has nothing to do with Palestinians, so why sieging Gaza?
Try to put 5 guys in a small room for one month, and see what their reaction is. People could not take that for long and tried to express themselves. It was not Hamas that initiated that, but maybe supported the already angry people.
If you bring an innocent person and put him in jail. Do you think he will be satisfied with that?
Agreed.
I said it was fake not to deny that a soldier was killed, but because definitely there was no shooting from the Palestinian side, and even if that happened, it was not planned as the Egyptian government claims just to increase its popularity among Egyptians, just like what they did against Algeria.
glad u got around to that.
i understand non of this sits well with people but we need to be realistic the entire arab region is behind isreal and we cant escape this sad but real fact. now as evident military action does not win u land with isreal, u need both military and politics to gain sth with isreal.
Agreed.
What rockets?
How many Israelis were injured or killed as a result of resistance in Gaza last year? Peace will not be achieved with Israel ever. They just don't want to give anything to Palestinians, and without forcing them to do so, they will keep their "nice" policies inside Palestine.
I agree for both answers. If Hamas find anybody else that could assist it in resisting, it will certainly coordinate with it.
First, Ahmed, please try to differentiate between you and the Egyptian government in your coming posts (I mean try not to use "we" as a proverb for you and the Egyptian government together" because you simply may have some objections to their decisions. You are not a representative of Egyptian government here, Are you? I'm asking you this because I don't want my criticism to the Egyptian government to be considered on you by any way.
Where did the article say that those vehicles were not for food and medicine??
If the rules are wrong, should we obey them just because they are rules?? Pardon me, Ahmed, but I don't like that logic. I totally understand that it is your country and you have to defend it and defend its rules as much as you can, but defend it from what?? From drugs and weapons coming from Gaza? Do you really think that Gaza can produce these things originally? Where will Gaza have drugs and weapons from as it is isolated from the whole world, no place to plant drugs and no factories for weapons?
I never said other Arab governments are better, but no one of them forbids food and medicine to get into Palestine.
Ok, you are saying that Arabs should have tried, but in the reality Arabs, other than Egypt, have tried since 1991 to go in the peace process. Israel was always not taking them seriously as it knew they can not fight it, so there is no point in giving them anything in lieu of the lands. We all saw that:
1- Egypt got Sinai back, but without a real authority. Sinai is well-protected by Egyptian soldiers to protect Israel from the west. Israel does not want more than that. It is desert, anyway, and not that important region to take control of. Egypt presents gas to Israel as a gift with less than its production cost since more than 20 years. Those factories which uses Egyptian gas are the factories that make the Israeli weapons.
2- Don't tell me Jordan made something out of the peace process, because simply it did not. Jordan got back few kilometers in Baqura region but is forced to protect hundreds of kilometers with Israel from the east. Jordan is begging to take water each year from Israel, and Israel uses water as a way to make pressure on Jordan in order to keep calm all the time and not refuse anything made by Israelis. Jordan has no resources at all, so alone, Jordan is not considered an independent country, and consequently can do nothing on the world map except "fighting terrorism".
3- Palestinian authority: They got nothing from peace process too. For more, please see the current situation in the West Bank and Gaza. make more focus on refugees, settlements and Jerusalem.
4- other countries like Qatar, Oman, Morocco, and Mauritania: No comment about what they got from their peace process.
Well, all the countries in the region took part in the relevant wars, not only Egypt, so do all the countries deserve to be central countries? If so, where will we bring non-central countries to the region from?
Egypt does not help Palestinians to unite now, Ahmed. It helps corrupt Fateh to keep ruling the Palestinians using force, and tries to enforce what Fateh wants on Hamas. It is not a neutral country. I mean the government here.
On the other hand, we know that Egyptian normal people really want unity in Palestine, and we really appreciate that.
Nice question:
1- To allow food and medicine to get into Gaza.
2- To allow sick people to leave Gaza to get their medical treatments whenever needed, not once each three months.
3- To stop supporting Abbas's corrupt authority against the well of the majority which elected Hamas.
4- To free all the Palestinian prisoners in Egypt, or at least not hurting them.
5- To stop its coordination with Israel to gather information about resistants in Gaza by interrogating people from Gaza.
6- To stop exporting gas to Israel.
I won't ask them to send weapons to free Palestine, Ahmed. Don't worry, but I think the previous requests are reasonable.
You said that the justification is not logical at all. I replied on this point above.
That has nothing to do with Palestinians, so why sieging Gaza?
Try to put 5 guys in a small room for one month, and see what their reaction is. People could not take that for long and tried to express themselves. It was not Hamas that initiated that, but maybe supported the already angry people.
If you bring an innocent person and put him in jail. Do you think he will be satisfied with that?
Agreed.
I said it was fake not to deny that a soldier was killed, but because definitely there was no shooting from the Palestinian side, and even if that happened, it was not planned as the Egyptian government claims just to increase its popularity among Egyptians, just like what they did against Algeria.
glad u got around to that.i understand non of this sits well with people but we need to be realistic the entire arab region is behind isreal and we cant escape this sad but real fact. now as evident military action does not win u land with isreal, u need both military and politics to gain sth with isreal.
now the question should be say the palestinians agree to go to peace talks and hamas some how hold back launching rockets or doing any thing violent will the palestinains get back any of there rights?? i dont know may this has happened before but i dont know if it did.
i hope this answers yr questions jbf.
i hope this answers yr questions jbf.
How many Israelis were injured or killed as a result of resistance in Gaza last year? Peace will not be achieved with Israel ever. They just don't want to give anything to Palestinians, and without forcing them to do so, they will keep their "nice" policies inside Palestine.
just so as to explain my opnion on all of this debate I have to say that: No I don't beleive that if Hamas stopped the rockets or did actually sit with the zionists on the peace table they or the Palestinian people as a whole will get anything and that is due to the fact that The Zionist occupation doesn't want peace in the first place.
Throughout history they(Zionists) have asked and asked for their so called "rights" while in reallity they're looking for excuses and this will continue for internity as far as Im concerned.
As for the Iran - Hamas theory of yours, I object as I find it rather mischeif to think that Hamas the organization that's roots go back to 1948 with their principles written at that time, to say that their main principle of not negotiating with an occipation force is in fact an Iranian call.
Throughout history they(Zionists) have asked and asked for their so called "rights" while in reallity they're looking for excuses and this will continue for internity as far as Im concerned.
As for the Iran - Hamas theory of yours, I object
as I find it rather mischeif to think that Hamas the organization that's roots go back to 1948 with their principles written at that time, to say that their main principle of not negotiating with an occipation force is in fact an Iranian call.
Man threatening Jews hauled off flight in Miami
MIAMI (Reuters) – A man who described himself as a Palestinian and said he wanted to "kill all the Jews" was hauled off a Detroit-bound Delta Air Lines flight in Miami and arrested, authorities said on Thursday.
The plane was taxiing away from the terminal at Miami International Airport on Wednesday night when 43-year-old Mansor Mohammad Asad of Toledo, Ohio, began making loud anti-Semitic comments and chanting, apparently in Arabic, Miami-Dade police said in a statement.
"I'm Palestinian and I want (to) kill all Jews," he said, according to witnesses.
The pilot returned the aircraft to the terminal and a Taser device was used to "neutralize" Asad after he charged an arresting officer, the police statement said.
The incident came amid heightened airline security concerns following the attempted bombing of a Northwest flight bound for Detroit on Christmas Day.
Police said Asad faced several criminal charges including threats against a public servant and disorderly conduct. The Delta plane departed for Detroit following a thorough security sweep.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100107/us_nm/us_security_airline_miami_1
MIAMI (Reuters) – A man who described himself as a Palestinian and said he wanted to "kill all the Jews" was hauled off a Detroit-bound Delta Air Lines flight in Miami and arrested, authorities said on Thursday.
The plane was taxiing away from the terminal at Miami International Airport on Wednesday night when 43-year-old Mansor Mohammad Asad of Toledo, Ohio, began making loud anti-Semitic comments and chanting, apparently in Arabic, Miami-Dade police said in a statement.
"I'm Palestinian and I want (to) kill all Jews," he said, according to witnesses.
The pilot returned the aircraft to the terminal and a Taser device was used to "neutralize" Asad after he charged an arresting officer, the police statement said.
The incident came amid heightened airline security concerns following the attempted bombing of a Northwest flight bound for Detroit on Christmas Day.
Police said Asad faced several criminal charges including threats against a public servant and disorderly conduct. The Delta plane departed for Detroit following a thorough security sweep.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100107/us_nm/us_security_airline_miami_1
to be honest rebel, i dont have answers against your post. your points are legit. i'm aware of the gas selling issue, it was a blazing topic last year specially that we sell it at a much lower price than its actual. i think it has changed, i;m not sure though but sth happened regarding this after the government was pressured to save face.
you need to understand that i dont defend this government, i def defend my country and i cant be blamed even if the points i argue with u about are points i believe in regardless of who is ruling this country. it is already known the government here is on one side and the rest of the population is ina very different side. off course the government has made life sooooooo crazy that its insane to actually think where the government is leading this country. no one has time to think if its moving in the right direction or not.
i hope after they close the tunnels they realize the only reason there were tunnels in the first place is the fact the borders are always closed so people have no other way to get there essential needs. if they finish the tunnel and open the borders all year long to convoys they wont have to worry about other things passing illegally as they claim and also int he same time u are maintianing the sovernity of egypt and all is happy.
the support for fata7 i dont see changing any time soon bec historically egypt is tied to them ever since abdel nasser and as u pointed out hamas does'nt sit well with the government here. not to mention corrupt attracts corrupt
its not just being involved in the wars that make us a central country its a group of reasons which i have mentioned.
you r hard to argue with to be honest rebel but u do raise several points that are true. once again there are no hard feelings, i dont care about the government but i do care about my own country bec as i mentioned in my very post when i started debating with u at the end of the day the government does'nt get the trouble its the normal Egyptian population that get all the bashing and uncalled for insults.
you need to understand that i dont defend this government, i def defend my country and i cant be blamed even if the points i argue with u about are points i believe in regardless of who is ruling this country. it is already known the government here is on one side and the rest of the population is ina very different side. off course the government has made life sooooooo crazy that its insane to actually think where the government is leading this country. no one has time to think if its moving in the right direction or not.
i hope after they close the tunnels they realize the only reason there were tunnels in the first place is the fact the borders are always closed so people have no other way to get there essential needs. if they finish the tunnel and open the borders all year long to convoys they wont have to worry about other things passing illegally as they claim and also int he same time u are maintianing the sovernity of egypt and all is happy.
the support for fata7 i dont see changing any time soon bec historically egypt is tied to them ever since abdel nasser and as u pointed out hamas does'nt sit well with the government here. not to mention corrupt attracts corrupt
its not just being involved in the wars that make us a central country its a group of reasons which i have mentioned.
you r hard to argue with to be honest rebel
but u do raise several points that are true. once again there are no hard feelings, i dont care about the government but i do care about my own country bec as i mentioned in my very post when i started debating with u at the end of the day the government does'nt get the trouble its the normal Egyptian population that get all the bashing and uncalled for insults.
