Israeli-Palestinian conflict (52 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,378
Well, what I noted during my life, Ahmed, is that Egyptian politicians tend to like to be the central country in the Arab world where they affect all the destinies of other countries. That was existing during Abdennaser's reign when he went to war in Yemen and tried to impose only Egyptian leadership on Syria during the unity.

Al-Sadat tried to convince all the Arabs that his peace idiocy was right and that all of the Arabs were idiots not to do what he did, and kept trying to impose his idiocy until he was shot down.

Now, Mubarak is so angry because Hamas does not want Egypt to interfere in Prisoners' swap deal, or in the resolving of the conflict with Fateh, because there is no trust at all in the intentions of Egyptian regime. Mubarak thinks that Hamas tries to decrease his control in the Middle East (taking in consideration that his control means Israeli control), so he tries to fight Hamas to get the keys of Middle East crises back.



I know other countries are not better that much, but we are talking here about forbidding food, medicine, and medical treatment, Ahmed. There was no country that dared to forbid a whole people from getting their basic human needs except the current Egypt.

I don't want Mubarak to allow weapons to get into Gaza because simply Palestinians can buy these weapons from Israeli soldiers when needed, but taking part in putting more than million people in hunger is just horrible and can not be understood ever.




Always, pressures are put on those that take part in these convoys to make them stop making them. It is not the first time to annoy such a convoy.




I do not say that rules should be broken, but are the rules logical?

Do you agree that food convoy should pass through Israel even if they don't carry anything but food? Do you know that all the food that goes via Israel does not reach to Gaza people?
valid points abed, no off course i have to agree that food and medicine has to pass thru gaza bec quite simply they will never reach the Palestinians if they went thru isreal. in the article you posted above it says the remaining 50 vehicles are not the food and medicine vehicles and yes i know this is illogical but these are the rules abed why cant they just be followed to avoid egyptains giving the people in the convoy a hard time, and give every one else sth to get angry about. the conclusion is yes i agree food, and medicine should be allowed thru gaza and not isreal.

i wont ignore the other points but i will reply to them when i get back in from watching the game bec you do raise a lot of very valid points and i have an opinion about them bec i dont quite agree with all of them.
 

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Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,378
Well, what I noted during my life, Ahmed, is that Egyptian politicians tend to like to be the central country in the Arab world where they affect all the destinies of other countries. That was existing during Abdennaser's reign when he went to war in Yemen and tried to impose only Egyptian leadership on Syria during the unity.

Al-Sadat tried to convince all the Arabs that his peace idiocy was right and that all of the Arabs were idiots not to do what he did, and kept trying to impose his idiocy until he was shot down.

Now, Mubarak is so angry because Hamas does not want Egypt to interfere in Prisoners' swap deal, or in the resolving of the conflict with Fateh, because there is no trust at all in the intentions of Egyptian regime. Mubarak thinks that Hamas tries to decrease his control in the Middle East (taking in consideration that his control means Israeli control), so he tries to fight Hamas to get the keys of Middle East crises back.

this is the part i dont quite agree with u about. i dont think egypt tries to be the central player in this region, bec we are the central player abed and as much as we egyptains hate it we are the ones who have to take that role for several reasons, like for example: demographical reasons , geographical reasons, historical reasons, and finally religous reasons.
i know you r pretty aware of these reasons and u know where egypt lies in each one of them.

egypt does'nt impose anything abed, if it did, dont you think the arabs would've went to camp david with us??? and lets be realistic abed when sadat went he went after telling the arabs as a whole that he was going and they were the ones who refused to go. the funny thing is the years passed off course with egypt being kicked out of the arab league and the issues that came after the signing but as i was saying its funny that now after all these years there are arab countries with no borders with isreal who have relations with the the jewish state. its also rather hilarious jordan after opposing the egyptain move for peace, went on in 94 and signed a peace agreement with the isreali's. u know abed the problem is its easy for other countries to say egypt is bad, egypt is not with us blah blah bec at the end should a war start its us who suffer not any one else. i really really am dying for some one to give me an answer to why no one says this to syria who have :

1- no peace agreement with isreal
2- has occupied land hence have a reason to make a military move
3- does not take an american funds, hell its not even one fo the americans allies


never mind this part abed, the arabs said no we wont go with you sadat, what have the rest of the arabs reached??? syria has yet to make a move for its occupied land since 73, palestine is still occupied with no solution for the refuges in the near future as it is. i think it was worth a try had all the arabs agreed to go forward when egypt went to get its land and that happened at the end of the day i agree def with you egypt did'nt get it with out giving up on a lot of things and as i had mentioned earlier isreal gained more but we also moved forward bec this country was torn by wars since 1948. since 1948 abed egypt was involved in all the wars against isreal so i think we deserve to be the central country in the region and i think we deserve to have our own stand regarding all of this. by this i dont mean we should not allow food and medicine to pass, but i think is enough that when ever sth happens we get the wrap for it even though we r the same ones trying to help the palestinians unite so peace talks can start bec as thigns stand there is nothing that will stop isreal from taking more land and killing more civilians.

now with this said i want to really really know what you want this country to do abed give me points. what do u think should egypt do?

the second thing is why is it only when it comes to egypt that the arab world unites against bashing and doubting us?? i mean egypt wants to close the tunnels thats there right bec i think u mis-understood me when i said weapons being transferred thru the tunnels, i meant the other way around not gaza's direction. i cant back up this claim but this is one of the reasons why egypt is moving forward with this tunnel bec as we both agreed egypt and hamas are the key problem here.

last summer there was the hezbollah move with trying to get weapons across egypt thats not allowed and i think its only fair that egypt disagree on this.

another thing abed is the incident that happened last year when the gaza war started when hamas rioted people into breaking thru the egyptain borders. that is an assault on a country abed, yes i understand gaza was under fire and people have no where to go but once again it was hamas who brought this on them selves not the other way around.

i agree with u regarding our foreign policy, and i do understand the sensitivity revolving around hamas being an islamic organization bec this country just like algeria had its fair share of islamic groups with weapons.
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,378
Fake breaking news from Egyptian TV: An Egyptian soldier is killed after being shot during clashes with Palestinians.

Almanar Tv reacts quickly: Palestinians say there were no shots from the Palestinian side. It is just to gain the Egyptian people opinion in the side of the regime.

its not fake abed, they just mentioned it on al-jazeerah. the solider was shot and there are people injured on the palestinian side.
 

JBF

اختك يا زمن
Aug 5, 2006
18,451
@Bisco: After reading that magazine :D I had some points to discuss:

What do you think Egypt gained from that so called "peace agreement" other than having their rightly freed Sina'a a place where no heavy fire power is allowed?

And what do you think that Arab countries would have gained from doing the same if supposedly they did?
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,378
@Bisco: After reading that magazine :D I had some points to discuss:

What do you think Egypt gained from that so called "peace agreement" other than having their rightly freed Sina'a a place where no heavy fire power is allowed?

And what do you think that Arab countries would have gained from doing the same if supposedly they did?
:D glad u got around to that.

ok if you go back just a few pages back i said that the only thing we gained from the peace treaty was having our land back. its not the treaty's fault its our fault bec once the war stopped the massive amounts of money that was in the past used to re-build a completly destroyed army was no longer needed in this area and instead of the money going to better things it just vanished ( thats the good way of putting it). i understand egypt had debts because of the 73 war and the other wars we got involved in but even despite this we really just stayed the same with slight improvements in certain area's which compared to isreal are nothing. so the answer to your question is yes we toke our land which was the priority but we missed out on making the maximum out of not being at a state of war with isreal.

as for the second question, well look jbf the way i understand it, had the arabs went with sadat we might have taken back the lands that were taken from is in 67 now whether this is true or not remains debatable, but i think it was worth taking a chance for. i think syria might have had the golan hieghts back at least i cant say the same about palestine bec its a different story. the thing i'm trying to say instead of having an offical agreement in the light liek egypt and jordan the remaining countries have relations under the table with isreal and there r various examples.

i understand non of this sits well with people but we need to be realistic the entire arab region is behind isreal and we cant escape this sad but real fact. now as evident military action does not win u land with isreal, u need both military and politics to gain sth with isreal. the palestinians have been trying to have peace talks since i can remember and nothing happened and they used military power and nothing happened so using both might actually help an example would be 73 bec had egypt not launched the war on isreal non of this would've happened ( syria still has its land occupied). you simply cant go to peace talks when u r the weaker side, if u do you wont get anything but if u go while at least u made sth to prove your worth u can sit and have a balanced exchange, now egypt see's it in a different view that its only peace talks and hence fata7 say its peace talks,iran does'nt like this peace talk issue so hamas hates this peace talk issue and hence egypt and iran have issues which consquently means hamas has issues with egypt. this is my take on things to be honest. now the question should be say the palestinians agree to go to peace talks and hamas some how hold back launching rockets or doing any thing violent will the palestinains get back any of there rights?? i dont know may this has happened before but i dont know if it did.

i hope this answers yr questions jbf. :)
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,476
why not come china an i go dere yoo see wht like be in clazy plaza but i don fink i go dere becuz i got more dan one kid an dat meen i had kill wife
:delpiero:

Let me worship you now -- in the hopes that I may earn yours favors of my loyalty before everyone else jumps on the bandwagon. Since you will be ruling the world soon enough as it is.
 

JBF

اختك يا زمن
Aug 5, 2006
18,451
@Bisco: It certainly did man and for those 2 magazines I thank you, as you make a lot of sense in all of them but just so as to explain my opnion on all of this debate I have to say that: No I don't beleive that if Hamas stopped the rockets or did actually sit with the zionists on the peace table they or the Palestinian people as a whole will get anything and that is due to the fact that The Zionist occupation doesn't want peace in the first place.
Throughout history they(Zionists) have asked and asked for their so called "rights" while in reallity they're looking for excuses and this will continue for internity as far as Im concerned.

As for the Iran - Hamas theory of yours, I object :D as I find it rather mischeif to think that Hamas the organization that's roots go back to 1948 with their principles written at that time, to say that their main principle of not negotiating with an occipation force is in fact an Iranian call.

Aaah 2o 3ashan ma 2ansa, man 2inta 3a rasi :D
 

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