Israeli-Palestinian conflict (81 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
You're kind of proving the point. You "westerners" as you put it really don't know nothing about the culture, mentality and the complexities of either side, not the Israeli or the Palestinians, or the region.
Israelis are not westerners and Israel isn't a western country, we are middle eastern. Not only culturally and geographically but majority ethnically as well.
This is exactly the Palestinian narrative of us being foreign, same as the how the "west" viewed Ashkenazi jews as foreign, only now it's convenient for some to call us westerns suddenly, or white.
As soon as you view Israel as a western country, a foreign entity on it's land then you already adopted a certain narrative and view the conflict and this war specifically through a particular prism. And that's fine but let's be honest about it.
All you know is what you see through the media, your choice of what media to consume is pre-determined by what narrative you already adopted. No one is a clean slate.
The guy was an MK for 2 years lol and got kicked out from his own party for being an extremist. He founded a party and didn't even pass the ballot. He is the fringe of the fringe and using him as a smoking gun of any sort just further proves my point that we all just latch to whatever reaffirm our preconceived narrative.
Don't bother mate, we live in separate realities.
Israelis are not westerners and Israel isn't a western country, we are middle eastern. Not only culturally and geographically but majority ethnically as well.
This is exactly the Palestinian narrative of us being foreign, same as the how the "west" viewed Ashkenazi jews as foreign, only now it's convenient for some to call us westerns suddenly, or white.
As soon as you view Israel as a western country, a foreign entity on it's land then you already adopted a certain narrative and view the conflict and this war specifically through a particular prism. And that's fine but let's be honest about it.
All you know is what you see through the media, your choice of what media to consume is pre-determined by what narrative you already adopted. No one is a clean slate.
The guy was an MK for 2 years lol and got kicked out from his own party for being an extremist. He founded a party and didn't even pass the ballot. He is the fringe of the fringe and using him as a smoking gun of any sort just further proves my point that we all just latch to whatever reaffirm our preconceived narrative.
Don't bother mate, we live in separate realities.
I wonder why no one mentioned one of the captives was held in an Al-Jazeera reporter`s house. Actually I dont wonder at all as it doesnt suit their Israel is wrong all the time and the Hamas are actually angels that fight for freedom - What is more ridiculous - People actually buy this sort of shit and believe it which actually prove the theory of people`s ignorance.
But yeah lets just post stuff about things we have no idea about because we believe we heard enough even though our sources are shit to begin with.
I dont blame them though. Ignorance is a disease so many have that it became some sort of honor having this disease.
Last thing - Of course no one is a clean slate and it includes my own country as well. I can list a 1000 things wrong with each country but the only thing they will get is the Israeli part because - Yes you guessed it - The disease of ignorance.
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Learn facts first talk later. Sometimes its better to be quiet and that people find you ignorant rather than talk and prove it.
But yeah lets just post stuff about things we have no idea about because we believe we heard enough even though our sources are shit to begin with.
I dont blame them though. Ignorance is a disease so many have that it became some sort of honor having this disease.
Last thing - Of course no one is a clean slate and it includes my own country as well. I can list a 1000 things wrong with each country but the only thing they will get is the Israeli part because - Yes you guessed it - The disease of ignorance.
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Learn facts first talk later. Sometimes its better to be quiet and that people find you ignorant rather than talk and prove it.
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Every single quote she gave is either fake, reconstructed or completely taken out of context. This is exactly how you build a false narrative.
Expect the Churchill one maybe, but people being racists in the 40's is hardly surprising is it?
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I used to like engaging with you even when we greatly disagree. I don't see the point anymore; you are too far gone emotionally.
Expect the Churchill one maybe, but people being racists in the 40's is hardly surprising is it?
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I used to like engaging with you even when we greatly disagree. I don't see the point anymore; you are too far gone emotionally.
It's report after report after report though. There are so many official sources speaking of atrocities committed by Israel. And those sources really do not have that much incentive to lie. Quite the opposite. In many cases the US and the UK would prefer if they did not mention any wrongdoing by Israel. And there's the news reporters. When Belgian news reporters go there, they report about the atrocities too. These people, again, do not have any real incentive to lie. Belgium does have a large muslim population, but it has a very important Jewish population as well.
Hamas needs to be stopped, we agree on that.
But this slow and toxic genocide performed by Israel over the span of decades must cease immediately. Enough is enough.
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I am gone emotionally, because I've noticed Israelis simply do not respond to all the evidence at hand. Whenever people point out any wrongdoing by Israel, you get labelled an antisemite. Or you're "part of the false narrative". Not once have I seen official Israeli sources actually try to discredit the evidence. It's not like they start about by saying this or that atrocity didn't happen. No, that's not the defence. The defence is that when people point it out they must hate Israel.
Remember the "targeted" Israeli Hospital bombing you lot rioted about for 5 pages? the one with "500 dead children and elderly"? reported first by AJ no less and then quoted by every mainstream media? The vitriol here was off the charts with zero benefit of the doubt.
when Israeli denied and the new evidence by Israel started to come out that it was a misfire by Islamic jihad and only about 20 people died in a parking lot where were all of you? everyone went silent, not a single retraction.
This is just one example, this happens constantly but gets buried every single time until the next opportunity to smear Israel, damage already done. I've seen it happens countless times. All Israelis have and at a certain point you resign to the fact that it's a pointless exercise.
Regarding the genocide claim, we have discussed it before. to me there never is any merit to this claim. not in any realistic quantifiable terms and not even under any legal term. It's a buzzword used to dehumanize Israelis, not absolving us from our sins, but I find it very telling when other people use it.
when Israeli denied and the new evidence by Israel started to come out that it was a misfire by Islamic jihad and only about 20 people died in a parking lot where were all of you? everyone went silent, not a single retraction.
This is just one example, this happens constantly but gets buried every single time until the next opportunity to smear Israel, damage already done. I've seen it happens countless times. All Israelis have and at a certain point you resign to the fact that it's a pointless exercise.
Regarding the genocide claim, we have discussed it before. to me there never is any merit to this claim. not in any realistic quantifiable terms and not even under any legal term. It's a buzzword used to dehumanize Israelis, not absolving us from our sins, but I find it very telling when other people use it.
This is what you do - and by extension Israel - do every single time.
You fail to realise that all of Western Europe and Northern America is an ally to Israel. And not just in a political sense. I'd argue that in many countries in Western Europe muslims aren't exactly popular. People want to give Israel the benefit of the doubt.
And if you're talking about smear campaigns and propaganda.. Israel have completely hijacked something seemingly as mundane as Eurovison. The fact Israel is in it boggles the mind in the first place. I mean, Israel is not a European country. But again, Europe is an ally. The only reason Israel exists is that Europe is an ally. To then intimidate contestants of other nations, even having them expelled after taunting them is crazy. To then claim antisemitism and be butt hurt about the entire ordeal is absurd. But it shows you how far Israel is willing to go.
And frankly I am sick and tired of being called an antisemite when all we fucking do is help fucking Israel. The spiteful bunch they are.
Well not all of the USA (people) are pro Israel or think of Israel as an ally and the same goes for Europe.
The Antisemite thing is completely stupid though as it comes of fear of others being neglected again or in other cases ignorance (Yeah we have some ignorant people too both in our country and in the USA).
This however changes nothing about the talk that is being held here about the Isareli Palestinian conflict which is irrelevant to your tiredness of hearing antisemitism talk.
The Antisemite thing is completely stupid though as it comes of fear of others being neglected again or in other cases ignorance (Yeah we have some ignorant people too both in our country and in the USA).
This however changes nothing about the talk that is being held here about the Isareli Palestinian conflict which is irrelevant to your tiredness of hearing antisemitism talk.
Look at what your leaders are saying. Whenever something happens that doesn't go their way they cry antisemitism. It has become the classic Israeli tactic by now. It is not irrelevant to the debate, because your leaders keep bringing it up.
What bothers me is that people don't seem to realise that members of institutions like the UN, the ICJ and the ICC do not take decisions lightly. If the Prosecutor of the ICC decides to go after Netanyahu, that means he has a case and probably a case so strong he expects political backing. Now will Netanyahu be convicted? I don't know. He has to be tried first. But my point is that the decision to go after him has nothing to do with him being a Jew.
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Well, for starters, we actually put you there.
But politics aside even, what would Israel do in the world? You'd not even be able to compete in international sports for instance. You'd be a pariah. But your way out is Europe.
What bothers me is that people don't seem to realise that members of institutions like the UN, the ICJ and the ICC do not take decisions lightly. If the Prosecutor of the ICC decides to go after Netanyahu, that means he has a case and probably a case so strong he expects political backing. Now will Netanyahu be convicted? I don't know. He has to be tried first. But my point is that the decision to go after him has nothing to do with him being a Jew.
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Well, for starters, we actually put you there.
But politics aside even, what would Israel do in the world? You'd not even be able to compete in international sports for instance. You'd be a pariah. But your way out is Europe.
I think you put too much stock on words used by politician. They serve a purpose, a tool. they are not a personal reflection on you or your country.
The bias, objectivity and political nature of institutions like the UN, ICJ and the ICC is a whole other matter.
You put us in gas chambers before that as well if we keep looking at this collectively but let's agree for argument sake. how are you "helping" us presently?
The bias, objectivity and political nature of institutions like the UN, ICJ and the ICC is a whole other matter.
You put us in gas chambers before that as well if we keep looking at this collectively but let's agree for argument sake. how are you "helping" us presently?
I am going by the words of your elected official. Do I hold you personally accountable for everything that has happened? No, I do not. Nor do I believe that the Israeli people are inherently evil. But I do believe that what the state of Israel is doing now and frankly has been doing for decades is atrocious.
There will always be some bias, but there is no doubt that the ICC in particular would historically be inclined to favour Israel.
What I said before, even apart from political and economic help, we simply allow Israel to exist. If it weren't for Europe, Israel would be an international pariah. Because of Europe Israel competes in international sports for instance. And that may seem trivial, but it's not. It shows the world you are taken seriously. Without Europe, you're just a small country surrounded by, well, let's call them "not allies".
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It's Israel that has forced itself upon us is in sports and Eurovision.
Europe didn't ask for it. The entire reason this is an argument is because of Israel.