Israeli-Palestinian conflict (83 Viewers)

[Seven]

The UN is a joke bro.
At least NATO has some bite to their bark.

We don't know that, because NATO never barks.

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[Tomice]

Palestine is recognized by 138 UN members. It is a non-member observer state of the UN.

It would not be easy for an international organisation to state the political leaders of a state that is pretty much part of their organisation are terrorists.

It would be like the EU saying Spain is run by terrorists.

But it is a moot point anyway as their acts of terrorism have been pointed out by the UN.

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I'm not sure how the UN handle the de facto split between Gaza and the West Bank and Hamas and the PLO.

A state with two governing bodies?

 

[Oggy]

Why did US align with Stalin URSS? Because they were fighting the biggest enemy, Hitler.

Terrorism is the biggest enemy not matter what they have made you to believe. They are not victim, they are not rebels protecting civilians and fighting for their rights. Their radicals which business is killing.

Being said that, Israel have to do anything they can do to avoid civilians deaths at all cost, even if that means to increase Israel casualties. Killing civilians, even if they are using by Hamas as shield and are more than willing to even kill by their own civilians to keep Hamas victim agenda, Israel have to do the impossible to protect civilians in both side. They are all victim of Hamas

I’ll never defend Hamas, but this isn’t about them anymore. How many children needs to die, how many people in general.

Also, as already mentioned this isn’t happening just today.

As someone who managed to survive the war and four years of siege which compared to the events happening in Gaza now looks like a childs play (and trust me it wasn’t) the defending bombing and killing is beyond any words.

I don’t want to be drawn further into this conversation, it hurts, especially when talking about victims as a statistics and numbers.

 

[Strickland]

Palestine is recognized by 138 UN members. It is a non-member observer state of the UN.

It would not be easy for an international organisation to state the political leaders of a state that is pretty much part of their organisation are terrorists.

It would be like the EU saying Spain is run by terrorists.

But it is a moot point anyway as their acts of terrorism have been pointed out by the UN.

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Its not a moot point, once theyre on terrorist list of UN thats binding for all the UN countries all the arabs financing them can be prosecuted for TF. Its a strong deterrant to cut off some of the financing.

Btw its been pretty fun watching several UN persons tiptoe around using the word "terrorist attack", this guy f.e.: https://press.un.org/en/2023/sgsm21981.doc.htm

 

[Seven]

Its not a moot point, once theyre on terrorist list of UN thats binding for all the UN countries all the arabs financing them can be prosecuted for TF. Its a strong deterrant to cut off some of the financing.

Btw its been pretty fun watching several UN persons tiptoe around using the word "terrorist attack", this guy f.e.: https://press.un.org/en/2023/sgsm21981.doc.htm

The way you tiptoe around Hamas being political leaders of a state?

Because it would cut off funding for all of Palestine as you rightly say. And then there's the question if a terrorist attack carried out by a state and considered lawful by that state can in fact be called a terrorist attack. At the very least it is a grey area.

It's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be, but fortunately it is even less relevant.

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[BayernFan]

@Post Ironic

 

[Tomice]

The way you tiptoe around Hamas being political leaders of a state?

Because it would cut off funding for all of Palestine as you rightly say. And then there's the question if a terrorist attack carried out by a state and considered lawful by that state can in fact be called a terrorist attack. At the very least it is a grey area.

It's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be, but fortunately it is even less relevant.

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Gaza isn't a state and you are conflating Hamas with Palestine and the PLO. Only the PLO is recognised as the political leader of Palestine.

It is like saying ISIS is a political leader of the Islamic state therfore it is not a terror organisation

 

[Seven]

Gaza isn't a state and you are conflating Hamas with Palestine and the PLO. Only the PLO is recognised as the political leader of Palestine.

It is like saying ISIS is a political leader of the Islamic state therfore it is not a terror organisation

I'm not saying it's not a terrorist organisation.

But they are the political leaders of (part of) Palestine. And that makes defining them as a terrorist organisation tricky business.

 

[Tomice]

I'm not saying it's not a terrorist organisation.

But they are the political leaders of (part of) Palestine. And that makes defining them as a terrorist organisation tricky business.

Sorry, I miss wrote. Didn't mean to imply that.

Just find it weird the legal limbo that the gaza strip is in.

There is a clear interest by some UN members to not classify Hamas as a terror org. Some for nefarious reasons some from a misguided conception or rather the misconception that economic incentives will dissuade Hamas.

The funny/sad part is that goverments under Bibi also facilitated funding of Hamas, mainly from Qatar. A major reason the Israeli public is after his head.

 

[BayernFan]

Peaceful and enlightened europe, famous for *checks notes* being the epicenter of the two last world wars and the birthplace of fascism

Difference is that the last World war ended in 1945, Europe has since then moved forward for the better.

Europa was highly fanatic politically and with extreme militarism, but apart from Russia you don’t see the Europeans fighting each other all the time like we used to do.

 

[Tomice]

Its not a moot point, once theyre on terrorist list of UN thats binding for all the UN countries all the arabs financing them can be prosecuted for TF. Its a strong deterrant to cut off some of the financing.

Btw its been pretty fun watching several UN persons tiptoe around using the word "terrorist attack", this guy f.e.: https://press.un.org/en/2023/sgsm21981.doc.htm

More concerning is the unexplainable delusion or supreme stupidity in thinking negotiations will resolve this or it has anything to do with a 2 state solution.

And this guy is the secretary general no less, it seem like the "international community" just want this conflict to never end

 

[IliveForJuve]

Hamas are illegitimate leaders of Gaza. The UN are being pussyfags here. If they're not terrorists then what are they?

Public international law is a joke.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Saw a Telegram message that Iran, Hezbollah and Syria might get directly involved in the war

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Saw a Telegram message that Iran, Hezbollah and Syria might get directly involved in the war

Then we're about to see freedom ring.

 

[BayernFan]

Saw a Telegram message that Iran, Hezbollah and Syria might get directly involved in the war

Is Syria really fit to fight any war outside of their own borders?

Haven't been keeping up on the Syrian civil war recently, but it just seems highly unlikely given their own disastrous situation - even if Assad has regained control of most of the country.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

There is no legal ground for compensation and right of return from 1948. It’s a UN declaration from the end of 1948, in December, after most of the Palestinians had already bern expelled or left. The settlements in the West Bank post-1967. Sure. Then you have an argument. You’d also have an argument for the Jews expelled all across the Arab and Islamic world post-1948. Compensation and right of return (none would take the latter obviously). 900,000 Jews left or were expelled around the Muslim world.
https://azure.org.il/include/print.php?id=581

But there are also arguments against the “right of return” and whether it even applies for mass population displacement. None of this is settled and has rarely been tried in international courts.
https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1459&context=mjil

The last article comes to the conclusion that “right of return” does apply to mass population displacement even within the original UDHR and ICCPR frameworks and legal definitions. There have been arguments made against this from a legal standpoint, but mostly from Israeli sources, so while they can make the argument, the biased position they are starting from makes it hard to consider them a good source.

So post-1948 it probably does apply. But a diplomatic solution is probably the only real possibility here. Enforcing what that guy talks about is an impossibility on many levels imo

Ok i checked out what you presented, and i think we are only disagreeing on the practicality of enforcing the law, which i actually I'm in agreement with. Nonetheless, people were kicked out never allowed to return and their property was confiscated. And this is illegal no matter the preparator and the victim.

 

[Fab Fragment]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_the_Gaza_Strip

That’s why its so important to get rid of the 2+ million "subhuman" "beasts" in Gaza.

 

[IliveForJuve]

The US and Israeli governments should also be declared as terrorist organisations.

 

[Ronn]

Saw a Telegram message that Iran, Hezbollah and Syria might get directly involved in the war

That's BS at least for Iran. They prop up these proxy groups like Hamas and Hezbollah so that they don't get directly involved

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What a piece of shit

 

[X Æ A-12]

That's BS at least for Iran. They prop up these proxy groups like Hamas and Hezbollah so that they don't get directly involved

- - - Updated - - -

What a piece of shit

and the citizens of israel voted for their government no?