Israeli-Palestinian conflict (70 Viewers)

[Fred]

It's not the same thing, Burke. Muslims aren't a people, they follow a religion. Catalans and Basques on the other hand are an ethnic group.

I take it you're okay with the existence of muslim nations, ReBeL? Because, as you are well aware, that in itself is a blatant violation of human rights. Funny, you piss on human rights all the time, but now that Israel violates them they're suddenly important?

Muslim nations? I dare you to show me one that exists right now.

 

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[Lawnchair Bes]

enough with the same shit. saudi arabia is one

 

[Fred]

enough with the same shit. saudi arabia is one

No it isn't. Not even close.

Do you even know what your talking about? Do you even know what an Islamic state is? How is Saudi Arabia an Islamic state?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

because the moral/ethical rationalization done by those who oppress the good people of saudi arabia is based on islamic teachings or its derivatives

 

[Fred]

because the moral/ethical rationalization done by those who oppress the good people of saudi arabia is based on islamic teachings or its derivatives

An Islamic state is a state that has adopted Sharia as the foundation for their political institution.

Saudi Arabia claim to be an Islamic state, like Algeria claim to be a democratic republic. Neither are what they claim to be. If only things are as simple as you make them out to be.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

but if there was no islam then there would be no basis upon which those claims may be made, hence they are an islamic state. the fact that they can create their own version of the kuran or sharia law and what not, no matter how perverted it may be, only proves the uselessness and the danger of having religion in public life.

 

[CheSchifo!]

An Islamic state is a state that has adopted Sharia as the foundation for their political institution.

Saudi Arabia claim to be an Islamic state, like Algeria claim to be a democratic republic. Neither are what they claim to be. If only things are as simple as you make them out to be.

I didn't say islamic states existed in that post. Nice way to evade the discussion, ReB and Fred. If you read my post again, you'll notice that I was comparing it to Catalan or Basque states, which don't exist either. The point is that you cannot be okay with an islamic state, because it would violate human rights. Those very rights you generally couldn't care less about, but that suddenly become important if Israel doesn't respect them.

Oh and as a sidenote: there are islamic states. No need for the same bullshit.

 

[Alen]

Hijab
Qur'an, Saudi Arabia, Iran.

 

[Fred]

but if there was no islam then there would be no basis upon which those claims may be made, hence they are an islamic state. the fact that they can create their own version of the kuran or sharia law and what not, no matter how perverted it may be, only proves the uselessness and the danger of having religion in public life.

Where did i say they can create their own version of Koran?

I said that they claim to be following the Koran and Sharia for their laws, but they're not, its really that simple.

For one, Sharia requires the ruler to be elected through a democratic process. he must be elected by mutual consultation and have a pledge of allegiance from those who elect him, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Second, the ruler cannot make decisions all on his own, he must have a consultative council to help him with his decisions, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Those are the basic requirements of an Islamic state as stated in the Koran and Hadith(The Prophets sayings). Saudi Arabia don't even meet the basic requirements, so how can they be considered an Islamic state.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Where did i say they can create their own version of Koran?

I said that they claim to be following the Koran and Sharia for their laws, but they're not, its really that simple.

For one, Sharia requires the ruler to be elected through a democratic process. he must be elected by mutual consultation and have a pledge of allegiance from those who elect him, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Second, the ruler cannot make decisions all on his own, he must have a consultative council to help him with his decisions, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Those are the basic requirements of an Islamic state as stated in the Koran and Hadith(The Prophets sayings). Saudi Arabia don't even meet the basic requirements, so how can they be considered an Islamic state.

i answered that

 

[Fred]

I didn't say islamic states existed in that post. Nice way to evade the discussion, ReB and Fred. If you read my post again, you'll notice that I was comparing it to Catalan or Basque states, which don't exist either. The point is that you cannot be okay with an islamic state, because it would violate human rights. Those very rights you generally couldn't care less about, but that suddenly become important if Israel doesn't respect them.

Oh and as a sidenote: there are islamic states. No need for the same bullshit.

No there are not. Point me to an Islamic State, and show me how it can be considered one.

Hijab
Qur'an, Saudi Arabia, Iran.

The Koran doesn't say that the state should force woman to wear Hijab, show me a verse in the Koran that says so.

 

[Fred]

i answered that

answered what?

 

[CheSchifo!]

Where did i say they can create their own version of Koran?

I said that they claim to be following the Koran and Sharia for their laws, but they're not, its really that simple.

For one, Sharia requires the ruler to be elected through a democratic process. he must be elected by mutual consultation and have a pledge of allegiance from those who elect him, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Second, the ruler cannot make decisions all on his own, he must have a consultative council to help him with his decisions, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Those are the basic requirements of an Islamic state as stated in the Koran and Hadith(The Prophets sayings). Saudi Arabia don't even meet the basic requirements, so how can they be considered an Islamic state.

Yes, but Fred, the problem is that they say they interpret Islam that way. You can't honestly say that Islam has got nothing to do with Saudi Arabia?

 

[CheSchifo!]

No there are not. Point me to an Islamic State, and show me how it can be considered one.



The Koran doesn't say that the state should force woman to wear Hijab, show me a verse in the Koran that says so.

Should there be Islamic states?

 

[Martin]

Where did i say they can create their own version of Koran?

I said that they claim to be following the Koran and Sharia for their laws, but they're not, its really that simple.

For one, Sharia requires the ruler to be elected through a democratic process. he must be elected by mutual consultation and have a pledge of allegiance from those who elect him, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Second, the ruler cannot make decisions all on his own, he must have a consultative council to help him with his decisions, is that what happens in Saudi Arabia?

Those are the basic requirements of an Islamic state as stated in the Koran and Hadith(The Prophets sayings). Saudi Arabia don't even meet the basic requirements, so how can they be considered an Islamic state.

Yes, but they say they are Muslim. You say they are not. Frankly who cares, as long as they can hide behind this excuse..

Is there some kind of international Muslim consensus that condemns Saudi Arabia for "phony Islam"? No. So the point stands.

 

[Fred]

Yes, but Fred, the problem is that they say they interpret Islam that way. You can't honestly say that Islam has got nothing to do with Saudi Arabia?

Thats what they say they do, they say it to control the masses. It doesn't mean they do it.

Look the Koran is clear on how rulers are to be elected. There is no way you can spin it by saying thats how we interpret the Koran.

 

[Fred]

Should there be Islamic states?

Ideally, yes, i wont talk about other countries, it can get me into a lot of trouble here, but if you ask me about my country Libya. yes i want it to be an Islamic State.

Yes, but they say they are Muslim. You say they are not. Frankly who cares, as long as they can hide behind this excuse..

Is there some kind of international Muslim consensus that condemns Saudi Arabia for "phony Islam"? No. So the point stands.

Where did you infer that from what i said?

They are Muslims, but they are not an Islamic state. An Islamic state has certain criteria that they do not meet, show me how they meet the criteria, until then all of you dont have an argument.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Thats what they say they do, they say it to control the masses. It doesn't mean they do it.

Look the Koran is clear on how rulers are to be elected. There is no way you can spin it by saying thats how we interpret the Koran.

Yes, but they say they are an islamic state. I choose to believe them. Apparently all those states who say they are islamic don't care about democracy, so I choose to see democracy as something that is not so vital to form an islamic state.

But all that doesn't really matter. The point I was trying to make is that states like Saudi Arabia or Iran shouldn't exist.

 

[Fred]

Yes, but they say they are an islamic state. I choose to believe them. Apparently all those states who say they are islamic don't care about democracy, so I choose to see democracy as something that is not so vital to form an islamic state.

Do you realize how shallow and superficial what your saying is?

So if they said they were a democratic republic, would you have took their word for it too? Is is really that simple?

But all that doesn't really matter. The point I was trying to make is that states like Saudi Arabia or Iran shouldn't exist.

I don't understand? Do you mean states that function like Saudi Arabia? Or the whole country Saudi Arabia shouldn't exist?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

answered what?

here, martin put it in different words

Yes, but they say they are Muslim. You say they are not. Frankly who cares, as long as they can hide behind this excuse..

Is there some kind of international Muslim consensus that condemns Saudi Arabia for "phony Islam"? No. So the point stands.