Israeli-Palestinian conflict (61 Viewers)

[CheSchifo!]

States that function like Saudi Arabia.

It's not superficial, it's the only possible way to ever agree on the meaning of a word.

 

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[Lawnchair Bes]

Ideally, yes, i wont talk about other countries, it can get me into a lot of trouble here, but if you ask me about my country Libya. yes i want it to be an Islamic State.

so what about the non-muslim minorities and women?

 

[Fred]

here, martin put it in different words

So you guys just take their word for it without really looking into it? again i ask the same question, if they said they were a democracy would you have took their word for it too? Or are you being selective and believeing them at your convenience and whenever it suits your argument?

 

[Ahmed]

of course, the same way Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East

 

[CheSchifo!]

Ideally, yes, i wont talk about other countries, it can get me into a lot of trouble here, but if you ask me about my country Libya. yes i want it to be an Islamic State.

You do know that such a state would violate human rights merely by existing?

 

[Fred]

States that function like Saudi Arabia.

It's not superficial, it's the only possible way to ever agree on the meaning of a word.

in that case i agree.

it is superficial seven, your saying that you think Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state regardless if they meet the criteria for an Islamic state or not, just because they said so. Is that not superficial?

so what about the non-muslim minorities and women?

what about them? If anything they'd be better off.

 

[Fred]

You do know that such a state would violate human rights merely by existing?

No i don't, care to point out to me how that would be so?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

So you guys just take their word for it without really looking into it? again i ask the same question, if they said they were a democracy would you have took their word for it too? Or are you being selective and believeing them at your convenience and whenever it suits your argument?

yes, but defining a democracy is much more concise than defining an islamic state

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

No i don't, care to point out to me how that would be so?

explain how non-muslims would be better off

 

[Alen]

Look the Koran is clear on how rulers are to be elected.

Is it?

Is the shura obligatory in the Koran or is it only recommended?
Which brings me back to the Hijab.

 

[Fred]

yes, but defining a democracy is much more concise than defining an islamic state

No its not, the Koran and Hadith clearly define what an Islamic state is. There might be some differences in interpretation on minor things, but the basic requirements that i mentioned earlier are clearly stated in the Koran and Hadith.

 

[Fred]

Is it?

Is the shura obligatory in the Koran or is it only recommended?
Which brings me back to the Hijab.

No Shora is obligatory.

the Hijab is obligatory, but the state should not force it upon anyone. If a woman chooses not to wear the Hijab it is her choice, she will be accountable for it in the afterlife, but she is not to be forced.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

No Shora is obligatory.

the Hijab is obligatory, but the state should not force it upon anyone. If a woman chooses not to wear the Hijab it is her choice, she will be accountable for it in the afterlife, but she is not to be forced.

even you are "interpreting" and "choosing" which islamic rules to follow

 

[CheSchifo!]

in that case i agree.

it is superficial seven, your saying that you think Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state regardless if they meet the criteria for an Islamic state or not, just because they said so. Is that not superficial?



what about them? If anything they'd be better off.

It is almost impossible to see whether or not a country is an islamitic state. The only way is to accept what they say. If they say Islam is the basis for their country, I'll have to believe them.

No i don't, care to point out to me how that would be so?

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


Article 21
Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 27
Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Don't tell me you think those rights can be assured in a state built on religion.

 

[Fred]

even you are "interpreting" and "choosing" which islamic rules to follow

There are some things that are open to interpretation. How a ruler is to be elected is not one of them. the ruler has to be elected by shura.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

either all the things written there are the word of god or none of them are. HOW COULD GOD HAVE BEEN WRONG?

 

[Fred]

It is almost impossible to see whether or not a country is an islamitic state. The only way is to accept what they say. If they say Islam is the basis for their country, I'll have to believe them.

Its not impossible. It is simple, is Sharia the basic foundation for their political institution? Do they apply Shura?

No, therefore they are not an islamic state. I really dont know how to make that any clearer

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


Article 21
Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.
The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 27
Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Don't tell me you think those rights can be assured in a state built on religion.

Those rights are assured to citizens by Islam actually.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Yeah right.

So what does the sharia say about marriage or eating certain types of food? Or what about homosexuality?

 

[Alen]

How a ruler is to be elected is not one of them. the ruler has to be elected by shura.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong here. You know the Koran better than me.
But could you please tell me where in the Koran it is said that the ruler has to be elected by the shura?

 

[Alen]

Fred, i just realized that the USSR wasn't a communist country.