Is torture acceptable? (4 Viewers)

[Raz]

I'll stop right here. No need to get into a debate with yet another nutter.

I said he was brainwahsed.

JR, to be honest such people really do push away people from christianiy, i mean in this day of age, who really can believe in such things?

 

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[pitbull]

I said he was brainwahsed.

JR, to be honest such people really do push away people from christianiy, i mean in this day of age, who really can believe in such things?

What things? That the earth was created by God not by unexisting aliens or big boom-shakalaka? That's really the hardest option

 

[rounder]

I said he was brainwahsed.

JR, to be honest such people really do push away people from christianiy, i mean in this day of age, who really can believe in such things?

This is the problem. Christians have wrongfully considered the Bible to be a speculative book rather than a pratical book. When you ask scientific questions such as 'How old is the earth?', 'How was man created?, 'When was man created?', it is utterly ridiculous to seek answers of these speculative questions in a practical book.

I am personally a theistic evolutionist, I believe in a personal God yet I also believe in evolution, there is absolutely no conflict between faith and science. I hope one day people understand that. I hope the day will come when Christians unintelligibly attack scientific facts in the name of religion as it is irrelevant and unnecessary.

That's just what I think.

 

[rounder]

What things? That the earth was created by God not by unexisting aliens or big boom-shakalaka? That's really the hardest option

Do you believe in evolution?

 

[Raz]

This is the problem. Christians have wrongfully considered the Bible to be a speculative book rather than a pratical book. When you ask scientific questions such as 'How old is the earth?', 'How was man created?, 'When was man created?', it is utterly ridiculous to seek answers of these speculative questions in a practical book.

That's just what I think.

I totally agree with you. I just think that bible, new testament is a great philosophy of life book, dont think it is possible to follow it completely, but i think it is surely a great thing to try and it certainly does no harm. So in my opinion if you strip bible from religion and god, and try to follow jesus teachings then its a good book to live by.

Btw, if you can could you tell me how do you perceive heaven?

 

[Martin]

This is the problem. Christians have wrongfully considered the Bible to be a speculative book rather than a pratical book. When you ask scientific questions such as 'How old is the earth?', 'How was man created?, 'When was man created?', it is utterly ridiculous to seek answers of these speculative questions in a practical book.

I am personally a theistic evolutionist, I believe in a personal God yet I also believe in evolution, there is absolutely no conflict between faith and science. I hope one day people understand that. I hope the day will come when Christians unintelligibly attack scientific facts in the name of religion as it is irrelevant and unnecessary.

That's just what I think.

This is true in so far as Christians don't make claims about science (evolution, the big bang etc) But this has never been what Christianity is all about, they've always claimed to know more facts than infidels.

 

[Martin]

I totally agree with you. I just think that bible, new testament is a great philosophy of life book, dont think it is possible to follow it completely

How do you know which parts you are supposed to follow?

 

[pitbull]

Do you believe in evolution?

I believe that human is unique and the origin of human is by no means connected with animals. But of course i believe that people were shorter before 300 years, that horses were smaller and stuff like that.

 

[Raz]

How do you know which parts you are supposed to follow?

Its up to you really, I believe like if you get hit to your left cheek, turn your right one. Which means that aggression cannot be stopped with aggression, and by not doing it you stop the aggression circle.

I havent read all the bible, but its up to me which to follow, there is no god that tells me which ones are good which ones are bad, no religion, it would be up to me to decide what are good things what are bad in it, like in any other book.

 

[Raz]

I believe that human is unique and the origin of human is by no means connected with animals. But of course i believe that people were shorter before 300 years, that horses were smaller and stuff like that.

So girls are made of Adams rib?

 

[Martin]

Its up to you really, I believe like if you get hit to your left cheek, turn your right one. Which means that aggression cannot be stopped with aggression, and by not doing it you stop the aggression circle.

I havent read all the bible, but its up to me which to follow, there is no god that tells me which ones are good which ones are bad, no religion, it would be up to me to decide what are good things what are bad in it, like in any other book.

I guess the major selling point is that the stories are so simple that everyone can understand them. But I would stop short of saying it's the best "manual for life" book you could find, for starters because of the fact that some stories are really cruel and if you followed them you'd be in jail.

 

[pitbull]

So girls are made of Adams rib?

How could i know in details? God created man and woman but i don't think that this part of creation you should detect literally, as it clearly was writed so because of different reasons. But everyone reads the bible with his own mind and some may think that it was written literally and i won't accuse them being morons.

 

[rounder]

I totally agree with you. I just think that bible, new testament is a great philosophy of life book, dont think it is possible to follow it completely, but i think it is surely a great thing to try and it certainly does no harm. So in my opinion if you strip bible from religion and god, and try to follow jesus teachings then its a good book to live by.

Btw, if you can could you tell me how do you perceive heaven?

I think Heaven is a place where inifinite happiness, love, and virtue is provided for all who have been good people in this lifetime.

This is true in so far as Christians don't make claims about science (evolution, the big bang etc) But this has never been what Christianity is all about, they've always claimed to know more facts than infidels.

Forgive me but that's a very ignorant statement to make. Some of the leading scientists in our world today are Christian, the leader of the human genome project, the very project that is responsible for all our knowledge of DNA today was a devout Christian, Francis Collins. I can name you many physicists who have converted to theism after realization of scientific knowledge which they proclaimed to be evidence for the existence of a creator.

Stephen Hawking is the renkown and well-repected scientist that almost proved the credibility of the Big Bang theory, particalurly that the universe had a starting point in time, and very accurately dismissed other theories including the parallel universes theory among others for logical inconsistencies. Virtually all physicists today acknowledge Hawking's claims to very accurate.

When I make claims about science, I do not make personal or emotional claims. I make legitamate scientific claims that have been pratically accepted as facts in the scientific world. And when have I ever called you an ignorant infidental? Or either?

 

[Raz]

I guess the major selling point is that the stories are so simple that everyone can understand them. But I would stop short of saying it's the best "manual for life" book you could find, for starters because of the fact that some stories are really cruel and if you followed them you'd be in jail.

Thats my point. Dont have an opinion about it being the best, but i think if you strip all the religious supernatural stuff you would have a good book. I really dont know everything what is writen in it, but i think what jesus(whoever might he be) taughts werent cruel. The Old testament is like a horror movie. But the new is a different story, although it still would have its issues in todays world, but as you said its a good "manual of like".

And yes, to simple people, who have lived in countryside for years without good or even any education it certainly is a good "manual of life", the new testament. But it having good points and claiming that they came from god doesnt certainly mean that it is a divine book.

 

[rounder]

I believe that human is unique and the origin of human is by no means connected with animals. But of course i believe that people were shorter before 300 years, that horses were smaller and stuff like that.

So you believe in microevolution not macroevolution?

I guess the major selling point is that the stories are so simple that everyone can understand them. But I would stop short of saying it's the best "manual for life" book you could find, for starters because of the fact that some stories are really cruel and if you followed them you'd be in jail.

You don't follow stories Martin. You deduce lessons from them.

 

[Raz]

I think Heaven is a place where inifinite happiness, love, and virtue is provided for all who have been good people in this lifetime.

If there is heaven i could agree with you on your description.

Does believing in god have anything to do with being good? I mean surely if you agree that the bible is more of a guidline than an historical boog, then you might agree that it doesnt matter if you believe or not, the thing is you have to be good no?

 

[Martin]

Thats my point. Dont have an opinion about it being the best, but i think if you strip all the religious supernatural stuff you would have a good book. I really dont know everything what is writen in it, but i think what jesus(whoever might he be) taughts werent cruel. The Old testament is like a horror movie. But the new is a different story, although it still would have its issues in todays world, but as you said its a good "manual of like".

And yes, to simple people, who have lived in countryside for years without good or even any education it certainly is a good "manual of life", the new testament. But it having good points and claiming that they came from god doesnt certainly mean that it is a divine book.

Well.. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

# Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

I mean...

 

[Raz]

How could i know in details? God created man and woman but i don't think that this part of creation you should detect literally, as it clearly was writed so because of different reasons. But everyone reads the bible with his own mind and some may think that it was written literally and i won't accuse them being morons.

Ok, I`ll ask you direct. Do you believe in Creationism?

 

[Martin]

Forgive me but that's a very ignorant statement to make. Some of the leading scientists in our world today are Christian, the leader of the human genome project, the very project that is responsible for all our knowledge of DNA today was a devout Christian, Francis Collins. I can name you many physicists who have converted to theism after realization of scientific knowledge which they proclaimed to be evidence for the existence of a creator.

Stephen Hawking is the renkown and well-repected scientist that almost proved the credibility of the Big Bang theory, particalurly that the universe had a starting point in time, and very accurately dismissed other theories including the parallel universes theory among others for logical inconsistencies. Virtually all physicists today acknowledge Hawking's claims to very accurate.

When I make claims about science, I do not make personal or emotional claims. I make legitamate scientific claims that have been pratically accepted as facts in the scientific world. And when have I ever called you an ignorant infidental? Or either?

What you said doesn't really have anything to do with a conflict between religion and science. You just said that some scientists are religious. As long as they are legitimate and ethical scientists, noone cares.

It's people who try to smuggle in Creationism into science classes in the US (or the UK) that are the problem. There too you have representatives of religion talking about science, but not in any kind of scientific way.

 

[Raz]

Well.. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html



I mean...

Like i said, i dont know all of his teachings, and certainly wouldn follow the ones you mentioned.

Lets take the first, the ones who wrote bible couldnt have wrote it in any different way, because its supposed to be the same god, so he had to write that Jesus approves. Since i dont believe in god or in any holy intervention writing the book so i would direct this to political reasons, to connect the two gods to the same, the Jewish and the new.

As for second, no comment

Btw, im just speculating, dont have any actual evidence