Is it coincidence?? (1 Viewer)

[*aca*]

Nostradamus said many things, which if you read the "right" way, would apear as a revelation .....in many respects, for many religions, nations, and so on....

Bible is written by humans (or shall i say men) for humans

Kuran is written by men (humans) for humans.

Discussing their moral values, fine. Philosophical? even better.

Saying that they are a word of God and even more, proving it by quoting parts of it and finding references in nowdays word, is, and i agree with Martin here, hillarious

I'm not dissing at Kuran (or bible for that matter), I'm just saying that these books have their value, and their value is not in proving them right or wrong.

 

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[ebraheej]

You didnt read the Quran right....... I thought so.

 

[*aca*]

I read both Kuran and Bible

I had to study them both when studying literature as a piece of literature and also whan i studies philosophy, as philosophical works.

I never studied them as a "religios" books and i never will

 

[*aca*]

btw, it is very easy to say, "hey you dont believe, you dont know, Bible (kutan) explains it all, we dont know but God does".....

Thats not an argument

 

[ebraheej]

That wasnt my argument...

 

[ebraheej]

Ok if it wasnt from allah why wasnt anyone able to write even a verse that comes close to the quran.

 

[*aca*]

well, there are many verses that are not only as good as Bible or Kuran, but even better Thats a matter of taste some of them written even before Bible or Kuran.

The thing is that you have to leave your options open. IF you believe that Kuran (or bible) is the ultimate and that there is nothing better, you close the door.

I believe that Majed mentioned it already. Dont close the door to anything.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++
well, there are many verses that are not only as good as Bible or Kuran, but even better Thats a matter of taste some of them written even before Bible or Kuran.

The thing is that you have to leave your options open. IF you believe that Kuran (or bible) is the ultimate and that there is nothing better, you close the door.

I believe that Majed mentioned it already. Dont close the door to anything.

I can tell you that there aren't any verses better. You read the translation in English (no the original text in Arabic) and most of the poetic meaning is gone. only the literal meaning. The most poetic people in the world couldn't even make something as great as it.

Back then in Arabia. Poetry was the main form of entertainment. they used to pass stories and experiences to next generations using poetry. There are poems made of thousands of verses. There were people who spent one year just to perfect one poems. (these people even have a specific name).
There were poetic challanges between tribes, and villages.
and the prescision of the Arabic language is also something that you can't understand even if you learn arabic. For example, The lion has 100 names. each name has a slightly difference meaning.

 

[«ƒÕ®zå JüV€»]

The koran has been written by God passed to mohammed by Teh angel gabriel while gray was asking before why he challnged while he knew that he was better (if taht what u were syain) was beacuase men at atht time had belived that theri poetry could be besta nd God challnges them with what they have like we say pying fire with fire as God ahs sent down the challnge coudl you write fas beter words than these and they failed!
And i still dont get it alex whats so funny in coincendenses?

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
In the Quran Allah specifically said he would leave the body of the pharaoh who was an enemy to Moses in this world as a reminder. And few thousand years later, people did discover pharaoh mummies.

Hmmm... but the Egyptians could have told you that themselves, not just Allah.



btw, why are there different spellings, Koran/Q'uran?

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by «ƒÕ®zå JüV€» ] ++
The koran has been written by God passed to mohammed by Teh angel gabriel while gray was asking before why he challnged while he knew that he was better (if taht what u were syain) was beacuase men at atht time had belived that theri poetry could be besta nd God challnges them with what they have like we say pying fire with fire as God ahs sent down the challnge coudl you write fas beter words than these and they failed!

Has anyone seen these verses which the challenged ones wrote in their attempt? Or does the Quran just say they were shite?

Also, I'm confused about the order of events. If the Quran was already sent down, and after that the men were challenged, how did the events of the challenge make it into the text of the Quran?

 

[«ƒÕ®zå JüV€»]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++



Also, I'm confused about the order of events. If the Quran was already sent down, and after that the men were challenged, how did the events of the challenge make it into the text of the Quran?

there is a verse taht says that i think it was posted if not ill find it later
the quran was sent all at once it was sent some verses at time..for any occascion or sumthin happnes allah would send down to mohammed teh verse concering the topic..
A verser was sent about chalngeing them on a think the whole quran and they didnt mange then he sent a verse asking them a whole ayah and they afiled then a verse and they failed and they couldnt manage to wirte anything to comapre to the quran..

 

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++

but really, open any other book, a novel if you will. use any software you want to help you count.. and find a decent connection that makes sense

Have you read Micheal Drosnin's "The Bible Code"?

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by «ƒÕ®zå JüV€» ] ++

there is a verse taht says that i think it was posted if not ill find it later
the quran was sent all at once it was sent some verses at time..for any occascion or sumthin happnes allah would send down to mohammed teh verse concering the topic..
A verser was sent about chalngeing them on a think the whole quran and they didnt mange then he sent a verse asking them a whole ayah and they afiled then a verse and they failed and they couldnt manage to wirte anything to comapre to the quran..

But wouldn't it have been more of a testament to Allah's power if the whole thing was sent at once? It'd be amazing if the right verses for relevant topics were sent down even before the topics were conceived by humans

 

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


I can tell you that there aren't any verses better.

Bold statement...to substantiate this you would have to have read every piece of poetry in existance...and even then it would still only be a subjective opinion. Of course you may be saying this as your faith believes it to be the Word of God, and so cannot be bettered by human hand. If so, then no argument or debate could change your mind and any further discussion would be pointless.

Back then in Arabia. Poetry was the main form of entertainment. they used to pass stories and experiences to next generations using poetry. There are poems made of thousands of verses. There were people who spent one year just to perfect one poems. (these people even have a specific name).
There were poetic challanges between tribes, and villages.
and the prescision of the Arabic language is also something that you can't understand even if you learn arabic. For example, The lion has 100 names. each name has a slightly difference meaning.

I have read the Rubiyat of Omar Kiyam (sic?), and I can say that it is indeed wonderful. However, it is not my favourite nor is the style....simply person choice.

I respect your religion and am pleased that you have a faith...many don't, but debating religious topics, even if it is a discussion on poetry...usually leads to trouble.

Members Rules 3?

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Roverbhoy ] ++

I respect your religion and am pleased that you have a faith...many don't, but debating religious topics, even if it is a discussion on poetry...usually leads to trouble.

Members Rules 3?

This has been brought up plenty of times in the several religious discussion threads, but to my knowledge, they've all been intellectual discussions where everyone learned a thing or two.

I haven't seen any personal attacks saying "HAHA YOUR RELIGION IS SO STUPID", and as long as it stays that way, i don't think Martin will object.

I'm pretty sure all the Juventus discussions turn uglier than these discussions

3. Mutual respect
The key aspect of successful interaction in a community comprising any set of members is respect. All participants, Juve fans or not, want to be respected, regardless of their heritage, geographical location, age, gender, financial situation, political background and culture. That kind of mutual respect is exactly what we wish to achieve. Therefore we ask you to respect other posters, recognize that your point-of-view is not the only possible one, and encourage them to participate in the forums. That way your position will be respected and others will feel comfortable as well.

Should you disagree with someone, respect them for who they are and do not make personal attacks. Imagine yourself in the other person's situation. Surely, you wouldn't like someone attacking you? Keep a cool head in a situation of conflict and keep in mind that the wiser man will step down. If you feel someone is attacking you, stay clear of them. If the problem persists, contact a moderator to solve the problem.

It doesn't say anywhere that heritage, location, age, gender, religion shouldn't be discussed, merely that we show mutual respect, which i'm pretty sure we've all done

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
The sad part is that i doubt you've ever even opened the Quran or did any research before you shut the door on this religion. :down:

call it a coincedence if you will with the numbers matching for oposite things....ok, so what? maybe so....

but really, open any other book, a novel if you will. use any software you want to help you count.. and find a decent connection that makes sense

No man, that's not it. And I didn't mean to say what aca did either (well only his first paragraph). It wasn't related to religion at all, I was commenting the fact that people so desperately want to find connections just for the sake of finding them, it drives them to seeing things that aren't there. I'm not saying ebraheej is wrong or the Quran is a hoax or anything like that. Sure enough, those numbers matching up probably isn't a coincidence and it was meant to be that way, but so what? How hard is it to match up the number of words in a long book? And why would those even numbers have to mean anything "more"?

It's like "Beautiful mind" (for those that haven't seen it, I highly recommend it), of course there *could* be connections in anything, crunch the permutations and surely anyone can come up with a plethora of "interesting" statistics and observations. But that doesn't mean whatever material you're processing actually holds anything more than is seen at face value. Because surely if you want to see a connection, you will find one. The question is: is it in your mind or is it real?

 

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


This has been brought up plenty of times in the several religious discussion threads, but to my knowledge, they've all been intellectual discussions where everyone learned a thing or two.

I haven't seen any personal attacks saying "HAHA YOUR RELIGION IS SO STUPID", and as long as it stays that way, i don't think Martin will object.

I'm pretty sure all the Juventus discussions turn uglier than these discussions



It doesn't say anywhere that heritage, location, age, gender, religion shouldn't be discussed, merely that we show mutual respect, which i'm pretty sure we've all done

Just pre-empting trouble. Your correct. At the moment it is a very good discussion which I'd like to continue in...hence the question about "The Bilbe Code", but these things deteriorate very quickly, as I'm sure you've seen before. Best to remind folks that not everyone has the same religious tolerence as people like you mate

 

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by Alex ] ++


No man, that's not it. And I didn't mean to say what aca did either (well only his first paragraph). It wasn't related to religion at all, I was commenting the fact that people so desperately want to find connections just for the sake of finding them, it drives them to seeing things that aren't there. I'm not saying ebraheej is wrong or the Quran is a hoax or anything like that. Sure enough, those numbers matching up probably isn't a coincidence and it was meant to be that way, but so what? How hard is it to match up the number of words in a long book? And why would those even numbers have to mean anything "more"?

It's like "Beautiful mind" (for those that haven't seen it, I highly recommend it), of course there *could* be connections in anything, crunch the permutations and surely anyone can come up with a plethora of "interesting" statistics and observations. But that doesn't mean whatever material you're processing actually holds anything more than is seen at face value. Because surely if you want to see a connection, you will find one. The question is: is it in your mind or is it real?

This is what Michael Drosnin did with the Bible Code...he "found" many facinating overlapping instances when he applied his software, which on face value looked amazing - such as the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin. Some think it's the word of God...other that's it's a load of cr*p.

"Beautiful Mind"...good movie

 

[Martin]

Thank you