Iranian elections (5 Viewers)

[Seven]

You misunderstood me this time. I know that you don't believe any country should own nuclear weapons, what you were saying was that it's more acceptable for Israel to have nuclear weapons, and i believe you also implied that the probability of Israel using it is lower, which is where i completely disagree with you.

It's Israel that's in a constant conflict with another country not Iran. Also it's Israel that demonstrated it's ability to use banned substances against civilians not Iran. So i wouldn't be so sure about "more stable"

This is true, but I see Israel as a stable factor because of the, even if troubled, relationship with the west. Iran on the other hand is an unknown factor. Then again you're right in saying anything could happen.

It does? I don't think so. I disagree with him too, that does not mean you can take cheap shots at him and say he doesn't care about innocent lives, just because he disagrees with you.

Is it really a cheap shot though? At times it seems to me that he'd rather want to see Israel kill innocent people merely to prove his point. I mean, Alen raises a pretty valid point I'm afraid. Turk is so full of hate that I doubt he cares all that much about Iran. Really just another country to use in his battle against Israel.

 

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[Fred]

I read Turks posts over and over again, and everytime i read them, i conclude that he cares about those Iranian civilians just as much as you or I. The only difference between us, is you and I believe it's Iran's oppresive and dictatorial government that is 100% responsible for whats happening, while he believes that the West have something to do with it. You see the only difference between us and him is who we think is the cause of Iranian people's suffering. But both parties are equally affected by whats happening to the innocent people of Iran.

 

[king Ale]

Andy, I didn't say you were taking sides and I'm sure you're not doing it. But if you can't rely on your media, it doesn't mean you can rely on ours. If you believe that your media is making up counterfeit stories, be sure that our media is surpassing yours on this. For 30 years our State TV keep saying how much the people of Iran are fully supporting the regime. In summer of 1999, they shut off an opposition's newspaper for criticizing the Guardian Council. Tehran University students started a calm protest against it. Basij and riot police attacked their dormitory. Four were killed and many got injured. Ahmad Batebi was a 22 years old student whose pic holding his friend's shirt in blood went on the Economist's cover.

http://www.payvand.com/news/03/nov/ahmad-batebi.jpg

He was found guilty of acting against the Islamic regime's security and he was sentenced to death. Then it was reduced to 15 years and at end he escaped from Iran while being impermanently released from prison for having medical treatment due to the severe injuries he was being suffered from as a result of torture he was receiving in prison. The other student Akbar Mohammadi was not that lucky. He got killed in the prison. And they were students for God's sake. Do you know what did our media write about them? They called them rioters who had been funded by CIA.

Read what media write and report but never believe them. I'm hardly having got accesses to BBC, CNN and AP because of the strict filtering on these sites (does an honest government need to filter any kind of information which is being reported against it?) but to be quite honest, they've been fairly unbiased on this matter so far.

 

[SoulSiick]

I said once in one of my early posts,1 day before election they started a maneuver(training) in tehran to threaten people, and also blocked sms messaging and cells.before the result announc,they said EVERY gathering will be illegal for candidates fans tomorrow.just after result announced they start arresting people from Karoobi,Mousavi and Hashemi political parties.

If they were winner of election with 65 percent of people,what was all of these for ?

they attack karoobi's (another reformisdt candidate) newspaper office and told them u can not write about election.most of the paper the day after was blank and compeletly white ! they wrote in the first page :we are not allowed to talk about whats going on !

They block every possible way that could help mousavi connect to people.right now Instant messengers like yahoo messenger(most papoular here) are blocked in iran ! what CIA ? it was a coup.u cant see how it was organized and programmed ? they knew people well react,they were prepared for people reaction,if not,what was the reason for the maneuver just a day before election? u know what the name of maneuver in tehran was ? Authority Maneuver !

They even arrest Saeed Hajjarian ! They killed this guy once,they shot him in his head,he miraclously didnt die but got paralyzed badly (he was theorist of reformist and had a newspaper who were talked against regime and encovering their part in chain murders by then) he can hardly talk right know.

They even arrest him,someone who can not talk,but in his mind he is a opposition to regime...u talkin about isreal ?

 

[SoulSiick]

About guardian council,

They are 12 mula(mujtahid),6 of them directly appointed by supreme leader.another 6 by Head of judicial system.and guess what ? head of judicial system is appointed directly by supreme leader !!

 

[Mohad]

I would prefer to think that with the proper education and enough democratic privileges, cultural freedom will naturally raise his own safe area and grow. I also like to think that they are enough smart Iranian people in and outside Iran that can help support and direct a very modern advanced democratic system. But I would like to believe that this has to be done without any external major politic-logistic or military support which could be a disaster.

 

[C4ISR]

if you have a Iraqi friend alive, ask him what will follow the ''democracy''

with request of zionist imperialism, USA will eventually attack Iran. After their brothers killed in mosque by a suicide bomber, or their mothers raped by american soldiers, would they still cheer for democracy? all i want to say they should stand unite. I don't want another Iraq case. Shias and Sunnis are killing each other and who are benefiting? is it that difficult to understand? as a Muslim Iranian if your efforts are appreciated by Shimon Perez, shouldn't you think once again?

Strangely enough, Iranian intelligence was a main force behind the in fighting in Iraq.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

And whataheck is that supposed to mean? Are you really belittling their plight just to sound like a wise ass?

there so much confusion in this thread its nauseating not to mention that insitigating bitch ass insect... in matters of democracy and democratic process iran are as democratic as they come; within the rules of the game of course. lets not talk authocracy personal freedoms and shit of the sort stay within subject. there was much much more tampering evidence in the us prez elections of 2000 you didnt see england clamoring for democracy. the whole pupose of a dicussion to enrich one another this is just another redundant performance of the usual suspects

 

[Ahmed]

you gotta elaborate mate, people seem to be after you in this thread

 

[king Ale]

No more elaboration is required. What's happening right in front of my eyes is the US and England clamoring for democracy.

 

[Seven]

I read Turks posts over and over again, and everytime i read them, i conclude that he cares about those Iranian civilians just as much as you or I. The only difference between us, is you and I believe it's Iran's oppresive and dictatorial government that is 100% responsible for whats happening, while he believes that the West have something to do with it. You see the only difference between us and him is who we think is the cause of Iranian people's suffering. But both parties are equally affected by whats happening to the innocent people of Iran.

Maybe. If that's the case, it's better, but Turk would still have to realise that you can't relate everything to Israel. And if an Israeli makes a statement about Iran his goal is not necessarily to weaken Islam or cause chaos.

there so much confusion in this thread its nauseating not to mention that insitigating bitch ass insect... in matters of democracy and democratic process iran are as democratic as they come; within the rules of the game of course. lets not talk authocracy personal freedoms and shit of the sort stay within subject. there was much much more tampering evidence in the us prez elections of 2000 you didnt see england clamoring for democracy. the whole pupose of a dicussion to enrich one another this is just another redundant performance of the usual suspects

You, sir, are empty. The president elections of 2000 were a disgrace, but it's not like Iran at all. Iran is NOT as democratic as they come. Their state structure isn't even democratic. It's not even a democracy if you would only look at the form in which it presents itself.

About guardian council,

They are 12 mula(mujtahid),6 of them directly appointed by supreme leader.another 6 by Head of judicial system.and guess what ? head of judicial system is appointed directly by supreme leader !!

THIS is why Iran is NOT as democratic as they come. I know you simply want to annoy people, Antares, but I expected you to know what a democracy was.

 

[Fred]

there so much confusion in this thread its nauseating not to mention that insitigating bitch ass insect... in matters of democracy and democratic process iran are as democratic as they come; within the rules of the game of course. lets not talk authocracy personal freedoms and shit of the sort stay within subject. there was much much more tampering evidence in the us prez elections of 2000 you didnt see england clamoring for democracy. the whole pupose of a dicussion to enrich one another this is just another redundant performance of the usual suspects

As much as i hate the US government i have to disagree here. I don't know how much tampering happened in the Iranian elections or in the US elections in 2000. So i won't go there.

The difference between the two governments is that the US govt does not treat it's protesting civilians with the same brutality the Iranian govt is.

 

[C4ISR]

John McCain and George Soros are plotting the downfall of Iran, lol.

Is this for real? I can't believe any government is capable of such stupidity in 2009.

 

[Ahmed]

As much as i hate the US government i have to disagree here. I don't know how much tampering happened in the Iranian elections or in the US elections in 2000. So i won't go there.

The difference between the two governments is that the US govt does not treat it's protesting civilians with the same brutality the Iranian govt is.

that is exactly the problem...no-one really knows what's the real deal about the Iranian elections

 

[Osman]

there so much confusion in this thread its nauseating not to mention that insitigating bitch ass insect... in matters of democracy and democratic process iran are as democratic as they come; within the rules of the game of course. lets not talk authocracy personal freedoms and shit of the sort stay within subject. there was much much more tampering evidence in the us prez elections of 2000 you didnt see england clamoring for democracy. the whole pupose of a dicussion to enrich one another this is just another redundant performance of the usual suspects

This just reeks of pretenously trying to be different for the heck of it. And I would atleast underthand shit like that, what I wouldnt is that you are actually for real with this.

 

[Mohad]

there so much confusion in this thread its nauseating not to mention that insitigating bitch ass insect... in matters of democracy and democratic process iran are as democratic as they come; within the rules of the game of course. lets not talk authocracy personal freedoms and shit of the sort stay within subject. there was much much more tampering evidence in the us prez elections of 2000 you didnt see england clamoring for democracy. the whole pupose of a dicussion to enrich one another this is just another redundant performance of the usual suspects

I ask the following questions:
1) What type of government shoots and kills peacefull protesters ?
2) What kind of government imports fanatics to beat up there own people ?
3) What kind of government bans all news reports and blocks phones while massacring their own opposition ?
4) What kind of government riggs elections to keep fanatics in power ?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

This just reeks of pretenously trying to be different for the heck of it. And I would atleast underthand shit like that, what I wouldnt is that you are actually for real with this.

as real as they get for i look at the subject at hand and dont get lost in the pictures or stories about freedoms and rights it is obvious that the iranian society is structured very differently legally than others to say the least but that is no reason to not be democratic

I ask the following questions:
1) What type of government shoots and kills peacefull protesters ?
2) What kind of government imports fanatics to beat up there own people ?
3) What kind of government bans all news reports and blocks phones while massacring their own opposition ?
4) What kind of government riggs elections to keep fanatics in power ?

for the first 3 questions; every government in every nation whether to survive or to uphold a higher principle will act in a way it sees fit for the majority of its people to insure law and order. as for the election maneuvering show me one party anywhere in the world that plays by the rules; politics is one dirty game.

for the last one; once again its not the subject at hand whether they re fanatics or founding fathers bring us your evidence of serious tampering instead of the imbroglio of disenchanted youth and freedom fighters.

 

[Bjerknes]

Welcome back, Canardo.

 

[Ahmed]

as real as they get for i look at the subject at hand and dont get lost in the pictures or stories about freedoms and rights it is obvious that the iranian society is structured very differently legally than others to say the least but that is no reason to not be democratic



for the first 3 questions; every government in every nation whether to survive or to uphold a higher principle will act in a way it sees fit for the majority of its people to insure law and order. as for the election maneuvering show me one party anywhere in the world that plays by the rules; politics is one dirty game.

for the last one; once again its not the subject at hand whether they re fanatics or founding fathers bring us your evidence of serious tampering instead of the imbroglio of disenchanted youth and freedom fighters.

so basically you're stating that the elections were free and fair, and the protests are happening just because the other favourite didn't win, right?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

so basically you're stating that the elections were free and fair, and the protests are happening just because the other favourite didn't win, right?

exactly which should be what is discussed not whether or not you agree with irans views on personal freedom and dogma why dont we see the rural side of iran why is it always the streets of tehran and young people theres more to the story

and thanks brother Andy i like how you relate things to the one issue that really matters- The green