Hernanes (7 Viewers)

[zizinho]

Pjanic better than Pogba, Radja better then Marchi.

Whats next? Castan better than Bonucci?

Szczesny > Buffon

 

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[La_Fidanzata]

both Marchisio and Pogba are better than Pjanic or Nainggolan.

I like your optimsm. I may be a bit pessistic on Pogba - im just so disappointed by his last two games. But Nainggolan must be evaluated higher then Marchisio. Not that i would swap that ahole, but i think it is to obvious. Peace

 

[Bianconero81]

I don't think it is ridiculous to suggest that Radja is better than Marchisio. He is a fucking beast. He may be disgusting and annoying as fuck, but there is no disputing his quality. Some of you just love to overrate whoever the fuck plays for us. Cuadrado and Hernanes were meh before, but now because they are Juventus players, they have to be great right? Fuck this hypocrisy.

 

[Osman]

I watch Inter every week as my house-mate is a Inter fan. The answer to that question is dependent on who the other midfielders are. Hernanes can defend, but he is lazy. When Inter has tried to play a midfield of Hernanes and Kovacic with Medel they've been a bloody mess, likewise him and Guarin. Because they don't work hard enough in tracking back. However, with Marchisio and Pogba he should be fine as a CM. However, realise that he isn't a particularly good decision maker, and his passing is surprisingly sloppy for a guy with so much technical skill. When he has a bit of time on the ball he is capable of delivering fantastic passes and crosses. However, don't expect to see that regularly. Rather he will be most invisible and with the occasional moment of brilliance

As a treq/AM he isn't particularly good at finding space, as he isn't particularly good without the ball. He would rather run with the ball, or shoot than pass. I don't believe this is a great attribute for a AM. Given that Icardi tends to just sit on the shoulder of the last defender Hernanes tendency to be very individualistic tended not to bear fruit as there was no one opening up space, hopefully that will be different here.

However, Dybala and Morata are far more dynamic and unpredictable and this hopefully will lead him to be more effective in that position here. Just be prepared for him to ignore his strikers on a regular basis. This infuriated Icardi at Inter.

So the answer to your question is that he can play either, but he has strengths and weaknesses at both positions. The question is whether being surrounded by better players will make him look better than he did at Inter. Because if he performs like he did there people will hate him here. He statistically was quite impressive at Inter, but generally he would be terrible for the majority of the 90 minutes, and then produce moments of magic.

One last thing. A lot of people seem to be under the illusion that he is a creative player. He really isn't. He is a very direct player with a lot of technical ability, but he's no Pirlo.

edit - I see that you actually asked what position he played. A bit of both. Mancini even tried him as an inverted winger a few times (with terrible results). He played more as an AM though

This is spooky, I almost said exact the same things in another forum about him just now ( http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showpost.php?p=19011241&postcount=2 ), you just put it together much better

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He has always played as a CM as far as I remember so thats why I am asking. Why would we get an okay CM and play him out of position as an AM? Seems counter intuitive to me if thats gonna be his main role. I think he could fill in as AM but won't primarily be one.
It seems to me he is here to be vice-marchisio as these two are the only ones that can distribute the ball deep in the midfield. Staruro, Asamoah, Khedira, and padoin are all ball winners to me with Khedira being slightly more gifted as a goal threat than the rest.

I see hernanes and Marchisio as Deep Lying playmakers in the Pirlo role, Pogba and Khedira as box to box (attack and defense), Staruro, Asamoah and the new guy as ball winners. Padoin is just padoin.

Pereyra and Caudrado are our AMs and possibly Pogba and Hernanes if the first two are too shitty and if everyone is fit.

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I'd say assuming full fitness our midfield will be Pogba, Marchiso and Khedira with Cuadrado or pereyra upfront. Hernanes can substitute for any of them but we primarily bought him to replace marchisio as no one else can do the same job while we had subs for everyone but marchiso

He is an AM. That can play CM decently but not at his core best there, and certaintlyhe aint no DM to replace Marchisio...

 

[zizinho]

I like your optimsm. I may be a bit pessistic on Pogba - im just so disappointed by his last two games. But Nainggolan must be evaluated higher then Marchisio. Not that i would swap that ahole, but i think it is to obvious. Peace

its not optimism. Marchisio has been playing on a very high level for years. the kind of season he had last year Radja never had in his life. Pogba is the best midfielder in Seire A and 2 bad games dont change that. that doesent mean the 2 Roma mids are bad though. both would start for us in a 4-3-1-2 and pretty much for most teams out there.

 

[Osman]

So, we're fine. Because the sane ones certainly weren't happy about it.

Yep, in another forum I frequent most of them are unhappy for losing their last remaining creative midfielder after Kovacic. They have no idea what Mancini is thinking.

 

[zizinho]

so how good was he for Inter actually? he played quite a lot but wasnt at the level he was in Lazio i guess? havent watched inter apart from 4-5 games last season so not really sure what kind of form to expect from him

 

[catch22]

This is spooky, I almost said exact the same things in another forum about him just now ( http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showpost.php?p=19011241&postcount=2 ), you just put it together much better

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That is weird. I thought I would put a bit of effort into it because I thought I was in a unique position to analyse him as I watched him basically every week. Anyway, at least someone appreciated it.

As for the Nainggolan vs Marchisio debate. Nainggolan has a bigger engine which allows him to contribute a lot for his side, but he's not actually that technically gifted. In the CL last season he often looked out of his depth. His first touch is a little suspect too. I prefer Marchisio as an overall player.

 

[Red]

so how good was he for Inter actually? he played quite a lot but wasnt at the level he was in Lazio i guess? havent watched inter apart from 4-5 games last season so not really sure what kind of form to expect from him

He didn't do much at Inter.

But he was thrown into a chaotic Inter team where almost no-one was doing well.

 

[Osman]

@catch22 (read the awesome book?) I remember him fondly from Lazio, watched him plenty there except for Inter at times. Looked great on the surface, but also why I disagreed with people suggesting we sign him when he was at his best with lazio, was exactly because of these traits, and mainly how inconsistent he can be.

I would take Nainggolan since he has the edge over Marchisio for being a totally dominant force engine wise, he really can bully an entire defence on his own. Even if he lacks technically, and Marchisio is more well rounded player, that impact alone Nainggolan can have on a midfield is why I would give him the edge.


But if Marchisio was compared to DDR, easily Claudio over him (except for long range passing).

 

[Akshen]

Yep, in another forum I frequent most of them are unhappy for losing their last remaining creative midfielder after Kovacic. They have no idea what Mancini is thinking.

Also from what I read they were happy with his performances as long as he played in AM position, not so much as Cm. And imo playong him alongside Kovacic limited his playmaking role (though inter fans claim he is not playmaker at all and couldnt link their midfield with attack). I wouldnt say their opinion is really saying anything to us, because their whole team was playing bad and they were bashing anyone, even Icardi. They thought that Hernanes would be the signing that would make them title contenders, but it was just like with Pogba right now, he is not shining whem players around him are shit.

 

[Red]

I would take Nainggolan since he has the edge over Marchisio for being a totally dominant force engine wise, he really can bully an entire defence on his own. Even if he lacks technically, and Marchisio is more well rounded player, that impact alone Nainggolan can have on a midfield is why I would give him the edge.


But if Marchisio was compared to DDR, easily Claudio over him (except for long range passing).

And we come to the useful comparison.

Marchisio v De Rossi
Pogba v Pjanic
Juve's other midfielder (Khedira/Sturaro/Asamoah) v Nainggolan

 

[catch22]

Yep, in another forum I frequent most of them are unhappy for losing their last remaining creative midfielder after Kovacic. They have no idea what Mancini is thinking.

I think a lot of Inter fans were not displeased at the fact Hernanes left, but rather that he wasn't replaced. The idea of Guarin being their only midfielder with any real attacking threat is definitely frightening to them. However, most Inter fans remember Mancini's old Inter where he did just stack the side with physical midfielders who pumped the ball to Zlatan, and that got them the scudetto.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Icardi, so I think that'll fail miserably.

 

[Osman]

Also from what I read they were happy with his performances as long as he played in AM position, not so much as Cm. And imo playong him alongside Kovacic limited his playmaking role (though inter fans claim he is not playmaker at all and couldnt link their midfield with attack). I wouldnt say their opinion is really saying anything to us, because their whole team was playing bad and they were bashing anyone, even Icardi. They thought that Hernanes would be the signing that would make them title contenders, but it was just like with Pogba right now, he is not shining whem players around him are shit.

Pretty much yeah, but they arent wrong in that he is not a playmaker. He can connect midfield an attack, but not by solid build up plays, but mainly just sheer individual plays.

 

[catch22]

@catch22 (read the awesome book?) I remember him fondly from Lazio, watched him plenty there except for Inter at times. Looked great on the surface, but also why I disagreed with people suggesting we sign him when he was at his best with lazio, was exactly because of these traits, and mainly how inconsistent he can be.

I would take Nainggolan since he has the edge over Marchisio for being a totally dominant force engine wise, he really can bully an entire defence on his own. Even if he lacks technically, and Marchisio is more well rounded player, that impact alone Nainggolan can have on a midfield is why I would give him the edge.


But if Marchisio was compared to DDR, easily Claudio over him (except for long range passing).

Yes, it's actually my favourite which is why it's my handle.

The difference between the Hernanes at Lazio and the Hernanes at Inter is that he has lost a yard of pace. His dribbling has slowly become less effective as he has lost his speed. He definitely was able to open up more shooting opportunities with his dribbling at Lazio than at Inter.

Not an awful buy. I think he would be the perfect backup AM at a big club, but as a starter it's a huge disappointment.

 

[Osman]

I think a lot of Inter fans were not displeased at the fact Hernanes left, but rather that he wasn't replaced. The idea of Guarin being their only midfielder with any real attacking threat is definitely frightening to them. However, most Inter fans remember Mancini's old Inter where he did just stack the side with physical midfielders who pumped the ball to Zlatan, and that got them the scudetto.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Icardi, so I think that'll fail miserably.

Yeah they were pretty much ready to give up on Hernanes, and I dont blame them. But as said, you sell Kovacic, and then you sell Hernanes, and dont sign any creative midfielders, Perisic is a all around goalscoring winger, and Ljalic is very skilled but super lazy pussy who mainly attacks as a fantasista/inside forward, not a creative choice.

Icardi is annoying douhce and limited poacher type, but he frigging fantastic at what he does. Yeah he can become a bit isolated with Inter having too many DMs, but he will have Jovetic/Palacio and Ljajic/Perisic playing off him, so he should be ok.

 

[zizinho]

He didn't do much at Inter.

But he was thrown into a chaotic Inter team where almost no-one was doing well.

sounds like he could find his form in a more organized team like Juve, but i still wont expect too much from him right away. like the rest of the signings, he should be given time to settle in and find his ideal role in the team. another player that failed at inter but found himself elsewhere? :xfinger:

 

[Osman]

Yes, it's actually my favourite which is why it's my handle.

The difference between the Hernanes at Lazio and the Hernanes at Inter is that he has lost a yard of pace. His dribbling has slowly become less effective as he has lost his speed. He definitely was able to open up more shooting opportunities with his dribbling at Lazio than at Inter.

Not an awful buy. I think he would be the perfect backup AM at a big club, but as a starter it's a huge disappointment.

Its the funniest most awesome book to ever been written IMO

On the bolded bit: My sentiments exactly Hopefully it will be another Evra case, where we buy a bit dissapointingly short term older former excellent player as a solid stopgap ,while we plan to get a top choice next year with big fee ala Alex Sandro.


And yeah its very noticeable how he has slowed down from his first years in Lazio, where he even played wing with success at times. But hopefully its less revealing when he plays higher up the pitch with us then he did at Inter, who had as CM/box to box on regular basis. Closer he is to the box, the better off we will be IMO to get the best out of him.

 

[catch22]

Yeah they were pretty much ready to give up on Hernanes, and I dont blame them. But as said, you sell Kovacic, and then you sell Hernanes, and dont sign any creative midfielders, Perisic is a all around goalscoring winger, and Ljalic is very skilled but super lazy pussy who mainly attacks as a fantasista/inside forward, not a creative choice.

Icardi is annoying douhce and limited poacher type, but he frigging fantastic at what he does. Yeah he can become a bit isolated with Inter having too many DMs, but he will have Jovetic/Palacio and Ljajic/Perisic playing off him, so he should be ok.

I'm of the opinion that the goal scoring statistics of certain strikers obscure their truth worth. Icardi might be a better finisher than Tevez for example, but if you put him in this side last season over Tevez and Juventus scores 20 goals less in total, but he'd score more than Tevez did.

 

[Osman]

And we come to the useful comparison.

Marchisio v De Rossi
Pogba v Pjanic
Juve's other midfielder (Khedira/Sturaro/Asamoah) v Nainggolan

Pretty much yeah.

Or Marchisio v De Rossi
Pogba v Nainggolan
Hernanes v Pjanic (FYI obviously the bosnian over him)
Khedira/Sturaro/Asamoah vs Keita/Ucan/Some french/belgian guy I cant spell the name of

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I'm of the opinion that the goal scoring statistics of certain strikers obscure their truth worth. Icardi might be a better finisher than Tevez for example, but if you put him in this side last season over Tevez and Juventus scores 20 goals less in total, but he'd score more than Tevez did.

Yeah that goes without saying, and this is why typical poachers like Icardi is almost extinct amongst top teams now. You wont see much of Pippo Inzaghi's and Trezeguets dominating the attacking charts in top footie now or in past decade. You have to be a complete and all around attacker or you arent good enough use to your team. Icardi is a better finisher then Morata, but there is no way I would replace the clinical argie with our young dynamic stud.



Btw, I havent welcomed you yet, good posts, benvenuto to this loony bin of a place