General News & Politics (38 Viewers)

[kappa96]

First of all I completely agree with the coup/revolution "switch and bait". It's a fair point and I didn't like it either.
But this does not make his cause and effect analysis of the issue less valid. Just devoid of the "moral" aspects.

To the bolded part, this is exactly the point, should or could but the west wont do anything just like they didn't do in Georgia or Crimea, It's just posturing and Ukraine will be left to hang when push comes to shove. Russia is a paper tiger, you are correct, but so is NATO.

Again I'm not saying the rational is correct or justified on either side, it is what it is.

Actually NATO can't use force since it's entire creation and modus operandi is defensive in nature.
If they would change it to an aggressive stance then they would be just like the Russian Federation.
So the only course of action for the west is again economic sanctions, but the whole burden is going to fall again on the Russian population, which putin couldn't care less as long as his friends keep bleeding them dry.

 

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[Kopanja]

Russian population could not care less too. Most of them support war. Fuck em.

 

[Elvin]

This has nothing to do with denying rights, there are no rights in realpolitik. Only strong and weak countries.

Also your view is western biased as this goes both ways. Did the Us allow Iraq or Afghanistan to pursue their own path? Would the US allow Mexico to join the CSTO? see Cuba.

Who exactly has been forced to join NATO? Yep no one.

Russia has no allies, only dictators that depend on it to stay in power.

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It's not objective in the slightest.
He calls the 2014 revolution a coup, when the Ukrainians were tired of yanukovic's corruption and putin again refused their right to determine their faith.
He talks just like a Russian propaganda troll.
I wonder why the west(NATO) doesn't show putin your "real politik", notion and just send 1 million troops in Ukraine as Rusia is just a spek of dust in comparison.
What would Putin do then, except whine about the Ukrainians right to determine their own faith?
And this "NATO close to our borders" rhetoric is just for stupid people, as NATO already has borders with Russia, in Estonia, Lithuania and Letonia.
Theoretically NATO could move its attack force anytime they want in those countries and they would walk straight right in Russia if it were the case.

And you know what Ukraine in NATO would actually do?
Stop Russian expansionist dreams in the west.
How else can putin keep in check its own people if not by fabricating imaginary enemies.
FFS Russia's income per capita is smaller than my country and we have like 18 million people.
Russia has 120 or 140 million, the majority leaving in powerty while their oligarchy bleeds the people dry.

Truth. Putin has no other strategy or plan other than staying in power.

Russian population could not care less too. Most of them support war. Fuck em.

Those have been successfully brainwashed by the 24/7 propaganda, sadly.

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Our president is a goddamn moron, but that has nothing to do with that. Russia is just an empire, yeah shitty empire, but an empire. And war and conquer is what keeps it going, always was and always will be.

And that's why Russia needs to be destroyed. It's barbaric.

The year is 2022 ffs! Theyre still trying to expand so more of the world can live just as shittily as 95% of Russia. Fuckin absurd.

 

[Tomice]

Who exactly has been forced to join NATO? Yep no one.

Russia has no allies, only dictators that depend on it to stay in power.

How is that relevant?

Truth. Putin has no other strategy or plan other than staying in power.

Those have been successfully brainwashed by the 24/7 propaganda, sadly.

Putin has a huge approval rating. far better then almost any other democratically elected leader. Staying in power is nowhere near the top of his worries.

Russia are a superpower, or at least see themselves as one. They have strategic goals, imperialistic tendencies and the desire to project power. combine that with the fact that anyone has almost zero leverage on them makes them a de facto superpower.

Are they a benevolent country? lol, not by any stretch. But they are serving their best interests as they see them.
People dismissing Putin as some crazy, clueless dictator are delusional.

 

[ALC]

Idk if anyone should take Putin’s approval rating seriously.

he’s running that country to the ground, they have zero prospects and long term planning other than trying to become USSR again but times have changed and I don’t see the benefits of doing that other than more labor I guess.

 

[Elvin]

How is that relevant?



Putin has a huge approval rating. far better then almost any other democratically elected leader. Staying in power is nowhere near the top of his worries.

Russia are a superpower, or at least see themselves as one. They have strategic goals, imperialistic tendencies and the desire to project power. combine that with the fact that anyone has almost zero leverage on them makes them a de facto superpower.

Are they a benevolent country? lol, not by any stretch. But they are serving their best interests as they see them.
People dismissing Putin as some crazy, clueless dictator are delusional.

You are very wrong about that. He used to have those ratings, not anymore. I speak Russian and I follow their politics closely. If you can call killing and jailing opposition 'politics' of course.

And if waging a war between two fraternal nations is not crazy I dont know what is.

You sound like one of those poor brainwashed Russians. Putin aint serving shit except his oligarch friends.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Putin has a huge approval rating. far better then almost any other democratically elected leader. Staying in power is nowhere near the top of his worries.

Agreed.

Even though people might choose to not believe it, for obvious reasons.

 

[kappa96]

Nah he used to have those ratings, but not anymore.
He only stays in power by force.
Any democratic election that would be held there would produce another leader.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Imagine believing Russian ratings lmao. Putin owns the motherfucking country. Of course those ratings are fabricated.

 

[Tomice]

Nah he used to have those ratings, but not anymore.
He only stays in power by force.
Any democratic election that would be held there would produce another leader.

I guess we will have to disagree on this.

He does have the lowest rating he has ever had right now but still those are crazy high at around 60%.
Regardless, every time Russia invades somewhere his ratings shot up, what does that tell you about the Russians?

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Imagine believing Russian ratings lmao. Putin owns the motherfucking country. Of course those ratings are fabricated.

No one believe Russians polls lol, take a look at polls done by European and American researchers. Same results.

 

[Kopanja]

Nah he used to have those ratings, but not anymore.
He only stays in power by force.
Any democratic election that would be held there would produce another leader.

I call BS. And I honestly tired of hearing this “Russians people are poor brainwashed souls” sentiment. They are not, they want someone like him. There are some who wants someone less fascistic, or course, let’s call them “good Russians” (btw, the darling of good Russians supported war and occupation of Georgia), but at the same time there are many for whom Putin is not Putin enough. They are not children, don’t make them idiots.

 

[kappa96]

They love war and poor living standards.
Seems legit. What is this 14th century Mongolian hoard?
Same as with the Belarus guy. They love him, yet it took what, 200 civilian deaths? to keep loving him.

 

[Kopanja]

They love war and poor living standards.
Seems legit. What is this 14th century Mongolian hoard?
Same as with the Belarus guy. They love him, yet it took what, 200 civilian deaths? to keep loving him.

What Belarus has to do with that?

Again, Russians are not children, nor complete imbeciles, don’t be so condescending. They might not love Putin, but they do support war and empire expansion, most of them do. That’s just how it is.
Yeah, you need some propaganda to whip them into frenzy, so they will agreee to wage war on closest neighbors. But that’s not that hard, most of them are very receptive.

 

[Elvin]

What Belarus has to do with that?

Again, Russians are not children, nor complete imbeciles, don’t be so condescending. They might not love Putin, but they do support war and empire expansion, most of them do. That’s just how it is.
Yeah, you need some propaganda to whip them into frenzy, so they will agreee to wage war on closest neighbors. But that’s not that hard, most of them are very receptive.

There is some truth to this. There's a famous saying: Russians are too scared to go on the streets to demand their rights, but are always brave to go abroad to war to restrict other nations' rights.

 

[Kopanja]

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There is some truth to this. There's a famous saying: Russians are too scared to go on the streets to demand their rights, but are always brave to go abroad to war to restrict other nations' rights.

Well, that’s just how things are. Again no one argues that it’s scary to show any dissent in Russia nowadays. But that’s the thing. It’s no one’s fault, except Russians. They just love to build Gulag, live in it and drag everyone around into it. It’s no individual Russian fault, hell I still know a couple who is against all this warmongering, but as a society they gravitate to some of the horrible authoritarian shit. That’s how it always was and will be until Russian empire is divided. So I don’t buy no more tales about how Putin is an aberration. He is completely logical, and as soon as this one croaked Russians will find another Putin, probably even more crazy.

 

[Elvin]

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Well, that’s just how things are. Again no one argues that it’s scary to show any dissent in Russia nowadays. But that’s the thing. It’s no one’s fault, except Russians. They just love to build Gulag, live in it and drag everyone around into it. It’s no individual Russian fault, hell I still know a couple who is against all this warmongering, but as a society they gravitate to some of the horrible authoritarian shit. That’s how it always was and will be until Russian empire is divided. So I don’t buy no more tales about how Putin is an aberration. He is completely logical, and as soon as this one croaked Russians will find another Putin, probably even more crazy.

Well it's just sad. They think they need a strong hand to keep this huge territory together but it has an exact opposite effect and will divide it again.

 

[Ronn]

Most nations’ common folk fall for jingoistic propaganda. It’s not limited to Russians.

 

[Tomice]

This is why the west wont do shit against Russia, this partnership is their worst nightmare

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-china-iran-hold-joint-naval-drill-friday-isna-2022-01-20/

 

[Kopanja]

Most nations’ common folk fall for jingoistic propaganda. It’s not limited to Russians.

Oh for sure. But like we at war with Russia for the eight year in a row. From the look of it, it’s quite possible that the best case scenario for me for next month is to uproot all my family and move them somewhere before they die under shelling.
And really irks me when some say that it’s “West fault”, “Russian people are nice it’s just Putin” etc. I don’t like this absolving “common folk” from any responsibility.

 

[Tomice]

Oh for sure. But like we at war with Russia for the eight year in a row. From the look of it, it’s quite possible that the best case scenario for me for next month is to uproot all my family and move them somewhere before they die under shelling.
And really irks me when some say that it’s “West fault”, “Russian people are nice it’s just Putin” etc. I don’t like this absolving “common folk” from any responsibility.

It's the west fault in the sense that they failed to establish any sort of deterrence against Russia on one hand and failed to bring them closer on the other (if it ever was a possibility ofc).

I completely agree that Putin is an extension of Russian sentiment and culture and not some tyrannical whackjob who hijacked a country.