General News & Politics (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ocelot
- Start date
Kazakhstan? 
I am not "blaming it all on Islam", but it is definitely one of the main factors why these nations are behind.
Yes, Türkiye was doing fine, right up until the moment one of their politicians decided he wanted to stay in power forever and get crazy rich in the process.
How did he do that? Yep, you guessed it - used Islam to manipulate the masses.
I am not "blaming it all on Islam", but it is definitely one of the main factors why these nations are behind.
Yes, Türkiye was doing fine, right up until the moment one of their politicians decided he wanted to stay in power forever and get crazy rich in the process.
How did he do that? Yep, you guessed it - used Islam to manipulate the masses.
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So if religion is the problem, how come Azerbaijan is not doing than those supposedly more religious less secular muslim states?
Unfortunately, Azerbaijan is secular only in a sense that while they consider themselves Muslim most of Azeris do not follow the requirements of Islam like praying five times daily or fasting during Ramadan or women covering themselves or drinking, but they sure as hell believe Islam to be the ultimate truth and consider their 'secularism' as a temporary weakness that they will fix later in their life. In short, it's bullshit secularism, more a habit than conscious approach.
As for Erdoğan, the first decade of his 20-year rule was super successful because he followed EU recommendations, in line with Türkiye's strategy of joining the Union. Then, I guess, he decided "fuck this, I'd rather stay in power forever and get rich", he ditched everything that was good and used Islam to manipulate the population: "They have their Dollar, we have our Allah", he said
As for Erdoğan, the first decade of his 20-year rule was super successful because he followed EU recommendations, in line with Türkiye's strategy of joining the Union. Then, I guess, he decided "fuck this, I'd rather stay in power forever and get rich", he ditched everything that was good and used Islam to manipulate the population: "They have their Dollar, we have our Allah", he said
Unfortunately, Azerbaijan is secular only in a sense that while they consider themselves Muslim most of Azeris do not follow the requirements of Islam like praying five times daily or fasting during Ramadan or women covering themselves or drinking, but they sure as hell believe Islam to be the ultimate truth and consider their 'secularism' as a temporary weakness that they will fix later in their life. In short, it's bullshit secularism, more a habit than conscious approach.
As for Erdoğan, the first decade of his 20-year rule was super successful because he followed EU recommendations, in line with Türkiye's strategy of joining the Union. Then, I guess, he decided "fuck this, I'd rather stay in power forever and get rich", he ditched everything that was good and used Islam to manipulate the population: "They have their Dollar, we have our Allah", he said
As for Erdoğan, the first decade of his 20-year rule was super successful because he followed EU recommendations, in line with Türkiye's strategy of joining the Union. Then, I guess, he decided "fuck this, I'd rather stay in power forever and get rich", he ditched everything that was good and used Islam to manipulate the population: "They have their Dollar, we have our Allah", he said
Same with Azeribaijan. It is clearly much less religious than most Arab and Islamic countries, yet it is worse off than some of the most conservative and religious ones. Doesn't sound at all like religion is the cause here.
if it can be used so easily as a tool for bad intentions, I say it is inherently bad itself and prone to manipulation.
It might be a wonderful religion of peace, I just don't see it function that way ever. All it brings is problems as far as I've seen in my life-time.
PS gotta admit, Azerbaijan's problems are more connected to the Soviet past/Russian influence than Islam. But we have a Southern neighbor who is ready to cause us major religion-related problems at the slightest chance (Iran).
It might be a wonderful religion of peace, I just don't see it function that way ever. All it brings is problems as far as I've seen in my life-time.
PS gotta admit, Azerbaijan's problems are more connected to the Soviet past/Russian influence than Islam. But we have a Southern neighbor who is ready to cause us major religion-related problems at the slightest chance (Iran).
@Elvin take religion out of it and look at people in government and you'll see that they're similar in their actions. Here in the UK our PM enforced a lockdown where people couldn't visit their dying family members, police were handing out fines too but the PM himself was partying with his ministers at his home. He won't resign, he won't get a fine so this is the leader of one of the most developed countries in the world. It's all about pushing an agenda. If you take the girl Shamima Begum who ran away to join ISIS as a kid, the government is working to remove her citizenship and set a legal precedent while justice as the lowest level would be for her to come back and be jailed. What about the families of fallen soldiers fighting ISIS, where is their justice? The government should be looking at how schoolgirls are being groomed rather than this. Also, how is it that Aung San Suu Kyi gets a noble peace prize, leads the slaughter of Rohingya Muslims, and is now in jail? Politics is all about gaining an advantage at the expense of the people, whatever is flavour of the month will be their tool. It's about clout and it's why the world is silent when Russia readies itself to take Ukraine, I don't see the UK and USA sending troops to the border.
to me there are fundamentally 2 kinds of societies: those with peaceful transition of power based on elections and those without.
Those two should not even be compared to each other problems-wise.
What I mean is that no matter what Boris/Trump/whoever does is kids play in my eyes (being from a place where I don't even have a voice/vote).
Those two should not even be compared to each other problems-wise.
What I mean is that no matter what Boris/Trump/whoever does is kids play in my eyes (being from a place where I don't even have a voice/vote).
You lost me right there. There is no comparison whatsoever between any Islamic country and the UK. On any measure of development. I do not agree with Elvin's theory that religion is the main cause for the poor state most countries in the region are, but i do think the culture is to blame. To even begin to compare any country in the region with a developed, mature democracy such as the UK, no matter what their faults are, which I'm sure you can point to many, is disingenuous and delusional IMO.
You bring the example of Shamima Begum, do you have any idea what would have happened to her if she was from a Middle Eastern country. There wouldn't even be a debate on how to treat her, and she probably would have tried to take refuge in a western country in that case too. I wonder why that is.
You bring the example of Shamima Begum, do you have any idea what would have happened to her if she was from a Middle Eastern country. There wouldn't even be a debate on how to treat her, and she probably would have tried to take refuge in a western country in that case too. I wonder why that is.
But that's not a religious thing. It's also a cultural thing.
Look at China. Look at North Korea. It has nothing to do with Islam.
Even in many South East Asian countries, where insulting the institution or the monarchy gets you jail time, and where questioning the government and its actions can result in significant jail time.
Look at China. Look at North Korea. It has nothing to do with Islam.
Even in many South East Asian countries, where insulting the institution or the monarchy gets you jail time, and where questioning the government and its actions can result in significant jail time.
This is irrelevant. I said Islam is the most dangerous RELIGION, not the most dangerous regime.
On the other hand, again, there are free and well-off non-religious states, Christian-majority states, Buddhist-majority states, but no such Muslim-majority states. There is simply no modern Islamic/Muslim success story. I wish there was at least one, so others could look up to it.
On the other hand, again, there are free and well-off non-religious states, Christian-majority states, Buddhist-majority states, but no such Muslim-majority states. There is simply no modern Islamic/Muslim success story. I wish there was at least one, so others could look up to it.
Its funny how the previously neutral Belarus, who organized peace talks between Russia and Ukraine is now organizing military shows with Russia next to the Ukranian border lol.
How on earth is Lukasenko still president I have no idea, that country is as fucked as Azerbaijan, everyone knows that the guy is pure scum clinging on to his seat, yet no one does anything about it, how can you not overthrow leaders like Lukasenko or Aliyev I'll never understand.
How on earth is Lukasenko still president I have no idea, that country is as fucked as Azerbaijan, everyone knows that the guy is pure scum clinging on to his seat, yet no one does anything about it, how can you not overthrow leaders like Lukasenko or Aliyev I'll never understand.
