[Emirates Cup] Hamburg vs Juventus (August 3rd 2008) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CORVETTE
- Start date
I really enjoyed reading your post, because you try to actually explain your way of thinking, but let me try to prove you why I think you're not necessarily right (i don't want to get into any endless discussion, and i don't mean to insult you in any case).
How you define 'creativity' (gotta love the word), i think you're contradicting yourself because... (next quote)
...you actually just said that we ARE 'creative', because there ARE in fact 'crosses by camo', 'long-range shot by neddy', 'power-penetration by Amauri/Iaquinta', and we haven't even seen our captain in action (his combinations). I agree that this 'through-pass' is a bit lacking, but replace Tiago/Alonso with Ekdal/Marchisio/Poulsen/Camo, and there we go. In the end, everything that matters is that the ball goes in, and i don't care if ronaldinho dances half an hour before he passes to pato who puts it in, or if Poulsen just kicks the ball to trez's head and there we go. You only get one score-point in the end, no matter how beautiful the goal is.
i think we should all come down from this alonso-enthusiasm. I would be the first to welcome him any time, and i would have preferred him over poulsen too (last month, at least), but let's face it; he is not necessarily the solution to all of our problems. He may be the solution we're looking for but that's what we thought from tiago too... so, i'm not happy he didn't come, but to make everything bad now, only because we didn't get that one player, is just not the right thing to do.
Poulsen actually played quite well in these early games, he adapted well, made little mistakes for such a crucial position and he got along well with the other midfielders. In the end, he could be even play a little further on, so that he comes nearer to the actual CM-position. And let's not forget that we have a Zanetti too, who is injury-prone, but still...
What i want to say is that i don't see all this negative future for our team. It's obvious that we didn't sign the ronaldinhos and van der vaarts of this transfer-market, and it's still obvious that we can't compete with milan when it comes to bidding (flamini) but we just can't deny that we lost A LOT of money in the last years, and that we're building a stadium, and that we're on a good path with our youngsters.
How you define 'creativity' (gotta love the word), i think you're contradicting yourself because... (next quote)
...you actually just said that we ARE 'creative', because there ARE in fact 'crosses by camo', 'long-range shot by neddy', 'power-penetration by Amauri/Iaquinta', and we haven't even seen our captain in action (his combinations). I agree that this 'through-pass' is a bit lacking, but replace Tiago/Alonso with Ekdal/Marchisio/Poulsen/Camo, and there we go. In the end, everything that matters is that the ball goes in, and i don't care if ronaldinho dances half an hour before he passes to pato who puts it in, or if Poulsen just kicks the ball to trez's head and there we go. You only get one score-point in the end, no matter how beautiful the goal is.
i think we should all come down from this alonso-enthusiasm. I would be the first to welcome him any time, and i would have preferred him over poulsen too (last month, at least), but let's face it; he is not necessarily the solution to all of our problems. He may be the solution we're looking for but that's what we thought from tiago too... so, i'm not happy he didn't come, but to make everything bad now, only because we didn't get that one player, is just not the right thing to do.
Poulsen actually played quite well in these early games, he adapted well, made little mistakes for such a crucial position and he got along well with the other midfielders. In the end, he could be even play a little further on, so that he comes nearer to the actual CM-position. And let's not forget that we have a Zanetti too, who is injury-prone, but still...
What i want to say is that i don't see all this negative future for our team. It's obvious that we didn't sign the ronaldinhos and van der vaarts of this transfer-market, and it's still obvious that we can't compete with milan when it comes to bidding (flamini) but we just can't deny that we lost A LOT of money in the last years, and that we're building a stadium, and that we're on a good path with our youngsters.
surprise! surprise! Dominic disagreed with me!
We actually had Boumsong and Almiron in that list, the list that your hero that smartass Secco and his boss made ,and got rid of them at the middle of the season. Let's wait and see form this list, which players they will get rid of. Oh, not to forget, Giovinco and Marchisio were our player, but it was their major super plans that they loaned him out. So they could keep the two in the bench instead of loaning them out, and we could have this super squad depth you are talking about.
We actually had Boumsong and Almiron in that list, the list that your hero that smartass Secco and his boss made ,and got rid of them at the middle of the season. Let's wait and see form this list, which players they will get rid of. Oh, not to forget, Giovinco and Marchisio were our player, but it was their major super plans that they loaned him out. So they could keep the two in the bench instead of loaning them out, and we could have this super squad depth you are talking about.
That was my point, i am glad i made my self clear
Unfortunately we are not, but we could though...
Both because of CR's tactical choices and because of the lack of tools.
(and our criminal lack of diligence to strengthen our defense)
If we had someone who would operate from the midfield, then the opposition defense would have to scatter trying to defend all fronts.
But since we cant attack from the center, we are only forced to attack using our wings and if our opponents see that and focus on them, they are shutting us down for good!!
I think CR is smart enough to see that, he only needs the right tool to come through this, thats why a CM like Alonso or an AMF like VDV was essential and Real signs VDV for the same amount we paid for Poulsen.
It seems to me, that we will suffer by choice when we could easily avoid that...
Unless Camo and Giovinco adopt that role, or even Stankovic...
I explained why Poulsen cannot help us with our problem ,even if he is proven good enough to wear our jersey, its not his job, not his fault, even if CR ask him to play that role or even simulate it, i will defend Poulsen on this, as i defended Nocerino, those guys were not meant for this job, they were meant to destroy the opposition game...
But i will accuse the ones who hired him for the wrong job!!
As for the stadium, i am afraid this is just another pitiful excuse from our ownwers/managers to hide their unwillingness to invest.
I would prefer them to sell Juve if they are no longer interested on her but even as things stand now, i ask for the most efficient use of our resources, it is essential to our cause and i dont seem them used efficiently!!
As for Flamini, we could have bind him for life, if we were to give him the salary and the transfer amount we gave for Poulsen, but our priorities were different then, another sign that indicates that we are not quite sure of what we want and we only move driven by our instincts in the transfer market and not by a well pre-conceived plan.
If a DM was always our target and we were really interested on Flamini, why wouldnt we move first and offer more???
We could tempt him since we had the CL spot, but we chose to pay more to get Poulsen...
Anyways, i really think that we will sign Alonso in the end, mostly because he will be cheaper at the x-mas and less because we need him, just like we did with Sissoko...
Unfortunately we are not, but we could though...
Both because of CR's tactical choices and because of the lack of tools.
(and our criminal lack of diligence to strengthen our defense)
If we had someone who would operate from the midfield, then the opposition defense would have to scatter trying to defend all fronts.
But since we cant attack from the center, we are only forced to attack using our wings and if our opponents see that and focus on them, they are shutting us down for good!!
I think CR is smart enough to see that, he only needs the right tool to come through this, thats why a CM like Alonso or an AMF like VDV was essential and Real signs VDV for the same amount we paid for Poulsen.
It seems to me, that we will suffer by choice when we could easily avoid that...
Unless Camo and Giovinco adopt that role, or even Stankovic...
I explained why Poulsen cannot help us with our problem ,even if he is proven good enough to wear our jersey, its not his job, not his fault, even if CR ask him to play that role or even simulate it, i will defend Poulsen on this, as i defended Nocerino, those guys were not meant for this job, they were meant to destroy the opposition game...
But i will accuse the ones who hired him for the wrong job!!
As for the stadium, i am afraid this is just another pitiful excuse from our ownwers/managers to hide their unwillingness to invest.
I would prefer them to sell Juve if they are no longer interested on her but even as things stand now, i ask for the most efficient use of our resources, it is essential to our cause and i dont seem them used efficiently!!
As for Flamini, we could have bind him for life, if we were to give him the salary and the transfer amount we gave for Poulsen, but our priorities were different then, another sign that indicates that we are not quite sure of what we want and we only move driven by our instincts in the transfer market and not by a well pre-conceived plan.
If a DM was always our target and we were really interested on Flamini, why wouldnt we move first and offer more???
We could tempt him since we had the CL spot, but we chose to pay more to get Poulsen...
Anyways, i really think that we will sign Alonso in the end, mostly because he will be cheaper at the x-mas and less because we need him, just like we did with Sissoko...
well we will see. Poulsen may not have been a first priority, but with Zanetti (extremely injury-prone) and sissoko (injury AND suspension-prone) i'm glad we have some depth there. I don't see why he's so unnecessary.
But you're right, a CM could help us. I'm glad we didn't get any difficult team in our CL preliminary game, so either way, we should be able to do the job, even without CM, and then, in winter transfer-window, we can get active again (by then, we'll have some more money to invest, if the qualification gets done).
One last thing to mention; i don't know to which team our tactics may be comparable, but the fact that xabi himself is benched could indicate that he's not THAT useful in the end. I know liverpool's system is nowhere near ours but still. Another example is Milan. I mean Pirlo is like THE typical CM, but even there, we see that he can only work with someone like kaka or seedorf helping him out (plus gattuso).
Either way, it's no use speculating whether or not we would be stronger or more creative or whatever with this or that player. Time will tell how strong we are. We have some very good players in our squad, and the first real games (CL quali, Serie A) will show how strong we are, and if not, we can at least rest our head in peace that we DO have some money left to fill the spot. It's better to see the missing link in real play, then to try to predict anything.
But you're right, a CM could help us. I'm glad we didn't get any difficult team in our CL preliminary game, so either way, we should be able to do the job, even without CM, and then, in winter transfer-window, we can get active again (by then, we'll have some more money to invest, if the qualification gets done).
One last thing to mention; i don't know to which team our tactics may be comparable, but the fact that xabi himself is benched could indicate that he's not THAT useful in the end. I know liverpool's system is nowhere near ours but still. Another example is Milan. I mean Pirlo is like THE typical CM, but even there, we see that he can only work with someone like kaka or seedorf helping him out (plus gattuso).
Either way, it's no use speculating whether or not we would be stronger or more creative or whatever with this or that player. Time will tell how strong we are. We have some very good players in our squad, and the first real games (CL quali, Serie A) will show how strong we are, and if not, we can at least rest our head in peace that we DO have some money left to fill the spot. It's better to see the missing link in real play, then to try to predict anything.
Too much repition on these forums so, to make things easier for you guys, im going to sum up the last four months of activity here...
- We need Xabi Alonso
- We need Creativity
- We don't need Poulsen
- Our board sucks/doesnt suck
- We suck and were gonna get relegated to serie D because of hamburg result.
Your all welcome, now lets start debating the match vs man u.
- We need Xabi Alonso
- We need Creativity
- We don't need Poulsen
- Our board sucks/doesnt suck
- We suck and were gonna get relegated to serie D because of hamburg result.
Your all welcome, now lets start debating the match vs man u.
Could you explain this better, with numbers.
You lost me here mate. I thought you said that we invest our money on wrong players, which means that we do invest money but we don't do it wisely.
So now i'm confused that you say they are unwilling to invest.
If you take a closer look you'll see that in last two summers Juventus was the team that invested more money on transfers than any other serie A team.
You lost me here mate. I thought you said that we invest our money on wrong players, which means that we do invest money but we don't do it wisely.
So now i'm confused that you say they are unwilling to invest.
If you take a closer look you'll see that in last two summers Juventus was the team that invested more money on transfers than any other serie A team.
Yeah, you rarily agree with the sensible mind.
Boumsong and Almiron did not improve the quality of the bench.
You conveniently managed to neglect Amauri, Poulsen and Mellberg.
Loaning out Giovinco and Marchisio was the best thing those players could have hoped for. They got playing time, which saw them develop and as a consequence will see them able to contend for a place this time around. They gained valuable experience and have grown into better players. Also the amount of matches more we'll play this season, should see them get a fair shot at fighting for a place.
Having said all that, i'm not sure we'll actually improve on last seasons' third place. The extra depth alone is neceassary to survive in the CL additionaly.
p.s. Putting words in my mouth (your hero secco) only detracts from your argument.
Boumsong and Almiron did not improve the quality of the bench.
You conveniently managed to neglect Amauri, Poulsen and Mellberg.
Loaning out Giovinco and Marchisio was the best thing those players could have hoped for. They got playing time, which saw them develop and as a consequence will see them able to contend for a place this time around. They gained valuable experience and have grown into better players. Also the amount of matches more we'll play this season, should see them get a fair shot at fighting for a place.
Having said all that, i'm not sure we'll actually improve on last seasons' third place. The extra depth alone is neceassary to survive in the CL additionaly.
p.s. Putting words in my mouth (your hero secco) only detracts from your argument.
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
You know, our long term plan would have been a good plan and a job well done. Last season we realized that what we lack the most was more depth ( in other words, more quality on the bench). The plan is, probably, after adding the depth this season, to add only the icing on the cake by replacing the 1 or 2 weakest links in our starting XI with champions next summer.
But we have a serious problem that will make all this impossible. Our main players are in their 30's and when the time comes to add the icing on the cake we'll find ourselves in position when instead of adding 1 or 2 more players to the team, we'll have to add 3 additional players to take the place of Del Piero, Camoranesi and maybe even Trezguet.
I really wonder how this problem will be solved, but i must admit i'm not an optimist.
You know, our long term plan would have been a good plan and a job well done. Last season we realized that what we lack the most was more depth ( in other words, more quality on the bench). The plan is, probably, after adding the depth this season, to add only the icing on the cake by replacing the 1 or 2 weakest links in our starting XI with champions next summer.
But we have a serious problem that will make all this impossible. Our main players are in their 30's and when the time comes to add the icing on the cake we'll find ourselves in position when instead of adding 1 or 2 more players to the team, we'll have to add 3 additional players to take the place of Del Piero, Camoranesi and maybe even Trezguet.
I really wonder how this problem will be solved, but i must admit i'm not an optimist.
