Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (2 Viewers)

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
No doubt that making fun is always needed,Muhammad himself had many jokes,i don't want to give u an idea about muslims that they should be boring or should always behave seriously,but there are some certain things that are red light to make jokes about,for example can you make fun of DP with Rab:D,i don't have any problem making fun of me.One of my friend whenever meets me ask me "have you get married to 4 wives or not yet":D this much is not a problem for me but not about God or prophet.

Bahai people gets offended if the photos of Baha'a is shown,so if i'm having a Bahai neighbour or friens i should respect him and not show,though for me there is nothing wrong in showing his photos but still i should respect them.the same thing for hindus,for us it's normal to slaughter animals to eat but they get offended by that,so i should respect them and not do that in front of them

And i believe all this is a part of religion toleration.
Well, it's fine to not make jokes because it's impolite. Anyone can choose to be polite. But it's a different thing if you go to jail for that.

I can make fun of DP with Rab, but I won't get banned for it.

Btw sometimes you have to be impolite. Don't you think what the Egyptians have been doing is impolite to Mubarak? But how else can they change anything?
 

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Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
They're not fighting each other, they're fighting against your goverment!
It's a standard tactic, Sheik. It confounds the waters. Politicians love to "rephrase" the problem in terms such that they are not the accused but the party trying to reconcile the ones who are fighting.
 

Gamaro

The Arabian Knight
Aug 6, 2007
1,289
Well, it's fine to not make jokes because it's impolite. Anyone can choose to be polite. But it's a different thing if you go to jail for that.

I can make fun of DP with Rab, but I won't get banned for it.

Btw sometimes you have to be impolite. Don't you think what the Egyptians have been doing is impolite to Mubarak? But how else can they change anything?
TBH,i know in Saudi here they throw in Jail,there is no any specific punishment for that in Islam,and it should be decided by government,now what it should be? whether fine or jail or something else i really can't judge? maybe fine is good.

BTW,even if a Muslim insulted a non-muslim figure will be also punished,so don't think it is from one side only.

Yes,obviously you have to act differently sometimes,people are even allowed to fight if fighting is needed.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
TBH,i know in Saudi here they throw in Jail,there is no any specific punishment for that in Islam,and it should be decided by government,now what it should be? whether fine or jail or something else i really can't judge? maybe fine is good.

BTW,even if a Muslim insulted a non-muslim figure will be also punished,so don't think it is from one side only.
The reason they punish these things is because they are afraid of what people would say if they could talk freely, and make jokes freely.

And I say that a government worthy of my respect is one that is sensible enough that it doesn't fear that I make fun of it.
 

Gamaro

The Arabian Knight
Aug 6, 2007
1,289
The reason they punish these things is because they are afraid of what people would say if they could talk freely, and make jokes freely.

And I say that a government worthy of my respect is one that is sensible enough that it doesn't fear that I make fun of it.
I always says that,i always say i believe Islam is true,and that's why i don't fear debating with anyone.And you are right no one should fear to debate,and in fact debating with others and specially publicly will give us a chance to clearify things to people,so i believe giving a chance to non-muslims to debate us will always come to our favors.

Still don't agree with you about making jokes:D

Ok Martin,i think it's enough for tonight it's Thursday,and that's our Saturday:D cos we have weekends in Thursday & Friday.It's reaching midnight know local time i want to go out with some friends.

Good night my new atheist friend.
:)
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Thanks for the chat, Gamaro :)

And now back to our regular program:
The source is a bit obscure, but in essence it reports that Mubarak has ordered Vodafone and other telephone operators to send sms's to their subscribers with words of support for Mubarak, or to somehow make the subscribers make collect calls to Mubarak's supporters. Apparently the telephone operators have refused to obey.
 
Jul 2, 2006
18,923
I am no expert, but yes I have some knowledge about these. Yes I know there were no caliphs at Ottomans time, but I don't see much difference anyway. Sultans or Caliphs or others, not much difference at all..

And it's not just 1915, many other ugly incidents by the ottomans too.
Sultans were also Caliphs.. In that time Ittihad Terakki were in power and they were not Islamic. Masonic more likely.
 

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
From Guardian:

Opposition protesters in Syria, where Bashar al-Assad rules over a regime far stricter than in Egypt, are planning protests for tomorrrow. Most observers, however, think his security apparatus will crush any dissent ruthlessly. There are signs tonight that pro-government forces are being mobilised. Stephen Starr, a freelance journalist based in Damascus, says on Twitter: "State-owned cars honking through the streets of Damascus waving flags in support of the government."
Sad but true, my friend's friend received that sms too, with "see you on the Damascus street, Friday etc etc hour"

I tell you, if these starts, reactions will be ugly by the government..
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
59,417
I HIGHLY recommend you all read this blog entry of an Egyptian protestor (reminds me of bits of Bisco's post):

Egypt Right Now, by Sandmonkey

I don’t know how to start writing this. I have been battling fatigue for not sleeping properly for the past 10 days, moving from one’s friend house to another friend’s house, almost never spending a night in my home, facing a very well funded and well organized ruthless regime that views me as nothing but an annoying bug that its time to squash will come. The situation here is bleak to say the least.

It didn’t start out that way. On Tuesday Jan 25 it all started peacefully, and against all odds, we succeeded to gather hundreds of thousands and get them into Tahrir Square, despite being attacked by Anti-Riot Police who are using sticks, tear gas and rubber bullets against us. We managed to break all of their barricades and situated ourselves in Tahrir. The government responded by shutting down all cell communication in Tahrir square, a move which purpose was understood later when after midnight they went in with all of their might and attacked the protesters and evacuated the Square. The next day we were back at it again, and the day after. Then came Friday and we braved their communication blackout, their thugs, their tear gas and their bullets and we retook the square. We have been fighting to keep it ever since.

That night the government announced a military curfew, which kept getting shorter by the day, until it became from 8 am to 3 pm. People couldn’t go to work, gas was running out quickly and so were essential goods and money, since the banks were not allowed to operate and people were not able to collect their salary. The internet continued to be blocked, which affected all businesses in Egypt and will cause an economic meltdown the moment they allow the banks to operate again. We were being collectively punished for daring to say that we deserve democracy and rights, and to keep it up, they withdrew the police, and then sent them out dressed as civilians to terrorize our neighborhoods. I was shot at twice that day, one of which with a semi-automatic by a dude in a car that we the people took joy in pummeling. The government announced that all prisons were breached, and that the prisoners somehow managed to get weapons and do nothing but randomly attack people. One day we had organized thugs in uniforms firing at us and the next day they disappeared and were replaced by organized thugs without uniforms firing at us. Somehow the people never made the connection.

Despite it all, we braved it. We believed we are doing what’s right and were encouraged by all those around us who couldn’t believe what was happening to their country. What he did galvanized the people, and on Tuesday, despite shutting down all major roads leading into Cairo, we managed to get over 2 million protesters in Cairo alone and 3 million all over Egypt to come out and demand Mubarak’s departure. Those are people who stood up to the regime’s ruthlessness and anger and declared that they were free, and were refusing to live in the Mubarak dictatorship for one more day. That night, he showed up on TV, and gave a very emotional speech about how he intends to step down at the end of his term and how he wants to die in Egypt, the country he loved and served. To me, and to everyone else at the protests this wasn’t nearly enough, for we wanted him gone now. Others started asking that we give him a chance, and that change takes time and other such poppycock. Hell, some people and family members cried when they saw his speech. People felt sorry for him for failing to be our dictator for the rest of his life and inheriting us to his Son. It was an amalgam of Stockholm syndrome coupled with slave mentality in a malevolent combination that we never saw before. And the Regime capitalized on it today.

Today, they brought back the internet, and started having people calling on TV and writing on facebook on how they support Mubarak and his call for stability and peacefull change in 8 months. They hung on to the words of the newly appointed government would never harm the protesters, whom they believe to be good patriotic youth who have a few bad apples amongst them. We started getting calls asking people to stop protesting because “we got what we wanted” and “we need the country to start working again”. People were complaining that they miss their lives. That they miss going out at night, and ordering Home Delivery. That they need us to stop so they can resume whatever existence they had before all of this. All was forgiven, the past week never happened and it’s time for Unity under Mubarak’s rule right now.

To all of those people I say: NEVER! I am sorry that your lives and businesses are disrupted, but this wasn’t caused by the Protesters. The Protesters aren’t the ones who shut down the internet that has paralyzed your businesses and banks: The government did. The Protesters weren’t the ones who initiated the military curfew that limited your movement and allowed goods to disappear off market shelves and gas to disappear: The government did. The Protesters weren’t the ones who ordered the police to withdraw and claimed the prisons were breached and unleashed thugs that terrorized your neighborhoods: The government did. The same government that you wish to give a second chance to, as if 30 years of dictatorship and utter failure in every sector of government wasn’t enough for you. The Slaves were ready to forgive their master, and blame his cruelty on those who dared to defy him in order to ensure a better Egypt for all of its citizens and their children. After all, he gave us his word, and it’s not like he ever broke his promises for reform before or anything.

Then Mubarak made his move and showed them what useful idiots they all were.

You watched on TV as “Pro-Mubarak Protesters” – thugs who were paid money by NDP members by admission of High NDP officials- started attacking the peaceful unarmed protesters in Tahrir square. They attacked them with sticks, threw stones at them, brought in men riding horses and camels- in what must be the most surreal scene ever shown on TV- and carrying whips to beat up the protesters. And then the Bullets started getting fired and Molotov cocktails started getting thrown at the Anti-Mubarak Protesters as the Army standing idly by, allowing it all to happen and not doing anything about it. Dozens were killed, hundreds injured, and there was no help sent by ambulances. The Police never showed up to stop those attacking because the ones who were captured by the Anti-mubarak people had police ID’s on them. They were the police and they were there to shoot and kill people and even tried to set the Egyptian Museum on Fire. The Aim was clear: Use the clashes as pretext to ban such demonstrations under pretexts of concern for public safety and order, and to prevent disunity amongst the people of Egypt. But their plans ultimately failed, by those resilient brave souls who wouldn’t give up the ground they freed of Egypt, no matter how many live bullets or firebombs were hurled at them. They know, like we all do, that this regime no longer cares to put on a moderate mask. That they have shown their true nature. That Mubarak will never step down, and that he would rather burn Egypt to the ground than even contemplate that possibility.

In the meantime, State-owned and affiliated TV channels were showing coverage of Peaceful Mubarak Protests all over Egypt and showing recorded footage of Tahrir Square protest from the night before and claiming it’s the situation there at the moment. Hundreds of calls by public figures and actors started calling the channels saying that they are with Mubarak, and that he is our Father and we should support him on the road to democracy. A veiled girl with a blurred face went on Mehwer TV claiming to have received funding by Americans to go to the US and took courses on how to bring down the Egyptian government through protests which were taught by Jews. She claimed that AlJazeera is lying, and that the only people in Tahrir square now were Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. State TV started issuing statements on how the people arrested Israelis all over Cairo engaged in creating mayhem and causing chaos. For those of you who are counting this is an American-Israeli-Qatari-Muslim Brotherhood-Iranian-Hamas conspiracy. Imagine that. And MANY PEOPLE BOUGHT IT. I recall telling a friend of mine that the only good thing about what happened today was that it made clear to us who were the idiots amongst our friends. Now we know.

Now, just in case this isn’t clear: This protest is not one made or sustained by the Muslim Brotherhood, it’s one that had people from all social classes and religious background in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood only showed up on Tuesday, and even then they were not the majority of people there by a long shot. We tolerated them there since we won’t say no to fellow Egyptians who wanted to stand with us, but neither the Muslims Brotherhood not any of the Opposition leaders have the ability to turn out one tenth of the numbers of Protesters that were in Tahrir on Tuesday. This is a revolution without leaders. Three Million individuals choosing hope instead of fear and braving death on hourly basis to keep their dream of freedom alive. Imagine that.

The End is near. I have no illusions about this regime or its leader, and how he will pluck us and hunt us down one by one till we are over and done with and 8 months from now will pay people to stage fake protests urging him not to leave power, and he will stay “because he has to acquiesce to the voice of the people”. This is a losing battle and they have all the weapons, but we will continue fighting until we can’t. I am heading to Tahrir right now with supplies for the hundreds injured, knowing that today the attacks will intensify, because they can’t allow us to stay there come Friday, which is supposed to be the game changer. We are bringing everybody out, and we will refuse to be anything else than peaceful. If you are in Egypt, I am calling on all of you to head down to Tahrir today and Friday. It is imperative to show them that the battle for the soul of Egypt isn’t over and done with. I am calling you to bring your friends, to bring medical supplies, to go and see what Mubarak’s gurantees look like in real life. Egypt needs you. Be Heroes.
 

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
Finally you agreed with something Martin,this what i was also talking about,the thing the people right to elect is something,and whether that thing is wrong or bad is another thing.Obama is the US president because majority of Americans voted for him,not because he is good,maybe people thought he is good and he is really good,or maybe people thought he is good and in fact he is bad,i always think that if 04 election is repeated now most of Americans would choose Kerr.And that's a disadvantage in Democracy TBH,sometimes maybe what is elected by minority is better than what is elected by majority,but in the end what the majority elected for wins.

And that was exactly my point regarding Hijab in France,i see that girls can just go wearing Hijab like how it is in the secular India,BUT at the same time French government has the right to ban Hijab,why? not because it's good to ban Hijab but it's the right of their goverment to do what they see good for their society,now whether the decision is right or wrong that's a different issue.

And the same goes of Homosexuality,maybe you right and we are wrong,but it's our right to prohibit it or not,as it's also any country's right to prohibit it or not.And that what i wanted to say,i didn't want to discuss it's good or bad.


:tup:Regarding Prostitution.





Martin,criticism of Islam is allowed whether publicly or not,i think naggar misused the term 'criticism'.What is not allowed is isulting,abusing,and making fun.and BTW even abusing and making fun of other religions' figures is not allowed,and that's mentioned clearly in Quran.

Non-Muslims during prophet Muhammad time used to go to him and debate and criticise what he says publicly,and we all have this written in our History,and in fact if you don't know,the criticism of Muhammad was even mentioned in Quran itself (i mean what non-muslims siad about him)

I will not get offended if you say you don't agree with some things in Islam or you don't believe in God,i will get offended if you make fun of my religion or insult my prophet or something like that.

The way you are debating and criticising now is fair enough,and i'm not offended at all:tup:




Ya Snoop,we don't have holly men in Islam,we don't have popes or priests,no one is holly in Islam and each and every muslim can face criticism and you must be knowing that very well my friend.The only one who we believe had a contact with God is Muhammad and he died,and when he died he left the matter to the people to choose whoever they want,and the very first caliph in Islam who was Abu Baker was choosen by people,in a time when all the world leaders were nothing but Kings and Emperores.How don't you know that mate?
You know what I meant with Holly, like the ones in Iran..

and I thought it was Caliphs who pick the next one, when the announce it before they died. Am I wrong?

You didn't answer my question btw, and my question is being ignored this way.

You said or it was Naggar (can't remember now) that "if the majority decide to prohibit the homosexuality, then what's the problem?" right? I am asking you this, were they asking people (at Islamic states back then) about making laws? or everyone was obeying caliphs or the likes' orders?
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
59,417
Yeah that guys very admirable character, good represantive of his country, as are the people in the video you just posted.


I read that CNNs Anderson Cooper was hit/brutalized, one of many journo's attacked, and not sure how many imprisoned.
 

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