Ebola Outbreak (9 Viewers)

j0ker

Capo di tutti capi
#82
Jan 5, 2006
22,844
#82
So it was okey to give ZMapp to the Americans, but it has to be tested for side effects for the African people.. they are dying FFS who gives a shit about side effects, it can't be worse than death no matter what.
 
GordoDeCentral

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
#83
Apr 14, 2005
69,398
#83
the wrong assumption here is that the CDC is different than other organisms in having survival as their 1st priority, theres no noble goal here, they will engage in lies and any kind of unethical behavior so long as they survive and get funded.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
#84
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
#84
Its simple. Its insanely expensive cause its in its testphase. Amerika funds it partially for protection of its own people if an outbreak would occur in the states, but they have no interest in sending it to afrika.


Funding the production of this medicine in larget amounts for the afrikan victims, would be a pretty efficient charity.
 
OP
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Thread Starter #86
Mar 16, 2004
111,601
  • Thread Starter
    • Thread Starter #86
    Plus they did not need to ship the American ebola victims here, they provided the first dose of ZMapp to them in Liberia. So that was a silly risk to take despite the low chances of someone making a mistake.

    X is right, the CDC is just another political organization really.
     
    swag

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    #87
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,481
    #87
    Zacheryah said:
    Its simple. Its insanely expensive cause its in its testphase. Amerika funds it partially for protection of its own people if an outbreak would occur in the states, but they have no interest in sending it to afrika.


    Funding the production of this medicine in larget amounts for the afrikan victims, would be a pretty efficient charity.
    Click to expand...
    To be fair, it also would come under the specter of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment... using Africans as guinea pigs at a safe distance for medical research.

    Though to actually get any real science out of such a distribution, you'd have to send in trained teams with controlled environments to collect data, ensure follow-up care, record cases, and expose to some really deadly-ass sheeet in Africa. None of which are high on a desirability list, let alone are they immediately possible.
     

    Zacheryah

    Senior Member
    #88
    Aug 29, 2010
    42,251
    #88
    Bjerknes said:
    Plus they did not need to ship the American ebola victims here, they provided the first dose of ZMapp to them in Liberia. So that was a silly risk to take despite the low chances of someone making a mistake.

    X is right, the CDC is just another political organization really.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah i dont get why they did that. Its not like its a massive operation or chemo. Basic medical care +ZMapp will do.


    Also, ZMapp, like existing attempted threatments, are only effective in the incubation phase. When the virulent phase kicks in (4days-4weeks later), it doesnt do much and the patient has 83%+ chance of dying.

    Furthermore, patients only become contagious when in that virulent phase. Only then the virus will be in the bodely fluids and becomes a danger for direct contact.
    So why ship him all the way here, knowing the patient was in its incubation phase, and could have moved a step further. add the preparations wich delayed the shipment.
    Bringing the ZMapp to africa and administer it there, would be far more reasonable.


    Again, Ebola is not a disease wich can can be succesfull in first world country's, cause of the way it spreads, but bringing a potentially virulent patient here is a stupid risk we should not take.

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    j0ker said:
    There about 2 thousand cases, how much could it cost?
    Click to expand...
    Remove any case in virulent phase
     

    Zacheryah

    Senior Member
    #90
    Aug 29, 2010
    42,251
    #90
    Oh please, Dokters without Borders and other medical response teams easely bring that along.


    I'm talking about a hospital bed, IV setup, monitoring device. Thats enough as far as care goes, and not rocket science.

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    Remember, we arent talking surgery here. That is an entirely different situation.

    Ebola treatment as it stands, is various system floods trough IV's with different antibiotics, hoping the body can overcome it before it goes virulent. And thats all there is to it.

    Its not so different from how Cholera is treated both in the bushes and in hospitals. Antibiotics, immune system boosting medication(steroids), and most important : an IV of a salt solution, to combat hydration wich is the actual killer : The body dehydrates and weakens before it can overcome the disease.


    Ebola is different and the same in current treatment (before ZMapp). flood it with antibiotics if its in incubation phase, and hope you'll slow down the growth enough for the system to kill it off.
     
    swag

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    #91
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,481
    #91
    Any life-threatening illness or injury, and you head home for intensive medical care for what likely would be a long recovery surrounded by family, friends, and medical professionals who know your health history. Why is ebola any different than anything else?

    Sounds like mystic fear-mongering to me. "She gotz the curse of the jackal! Begone, unclean witch!"

    It's not 1742 anymore, Zach.
     
    ALC

    ALC

    Ohaulick
    #92
    Oct 28, 2010
    46,017
    #92
    What Greg said. The virus is pretty hard to spread under controlled circumstances so why not being the guy home? I'd rather be in America if I were him too.
     
    OP
    Bjerknes

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Thread Starter #93
    Mar 16, 2004
    111,601
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    • Thread Starter #93
    If the virus is difficult to spread under normal conditions, then how did the two American patients contract the virus in the first place? They were wearing full protective gear, you know.



    Something doesn't add up. Either someone spiked his food or deliberately contaminated him, or the virus is more easily spread than you think. It may not be airborne but it is obviously very contagious.
     
    ALC

    ALC

    Ohaulick
    #94
    Oct 28, 2010
    46,017
    #94
    The dude was a doctor in Africa. Must've came into contact with some patient's bodily fluids. It happens, there's nurses in the US who get HIV because they accidentally prick themselves with a contaminated syringe.
     
    swag

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    #95
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,481
    #95
    Most doctors usually don't administer care from behind a glass wall in a clean room. And any protective suit is only as good as the procedures you follow to put it on, keep it sealed, and safely remove and dispose of it. Lots of failures can happen along the way.
     
    OP
    Bjerknes

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Thread Starter #96
    Mar 16, 2004
    111,601
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    • Thread Starter #96
    I'm sure they follow relatively standard decontamination techniques, similar to the hazmat units in the US after responding to an anthrax scare or the like, washing down outside away from the hot zone. It's not like they suddenly become idiots just because they're in Africa.
     
    Enron

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    #97
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,252
    #97
    Well then again, they still have AIDS running riot through the populations of Liberia, Sierra Leon, etc.
     

    Zacheryah

    Senior Member
    #98
    Aug 29, 2010
    42,251
    #98
    ALC said:
    What Greg said. The virus is pretty hard to spread under controlled circumstances so why not being the guy home? I'd rather be in America if I were him too.
    Click to expand...
    Excuse me but i was probably the first that said it the most times, how Ebola is a third world disease and has no chance in the first world, so its not "what greg said".


    I think you should read more of my posts here, as i've put efford in trying to explain it has no chance, but is the second most lethal micro organism in history when reaching its virulent phase, wich is when we see symptoms

    Am i afraid of a US epidemic ? Fuck no. But IF you contract the pathogen, you HAVE FUCKING 83% CHANCE OF FUCKING DYING BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT DIAGNOSE IT IN TIME.


    for fucks sake

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    Bjerknes said:
    I'm sure they follow relatively standard decontamination techniques, similar to the hazmat units in the US after responding to an anthrax scare or the like, washing down outside away from the hot zone. It's not like they suddenly become idiots just because they're in Africa.
    Click to expand...
    THis is exactly my point.

    It wont give an epidemic, but look here, all the precautions in the world, and still got infected cause handeling the patient.


    QUARANTINE. Eighter the guy dies in africa, or comes home healthy.
     
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