Dubai Virgin Radio Dj fired for offensive comments on god (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Il Re
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yep, another thing that people need to consider is alot of what people think is islam is actually cultural, i.e. arabic or asian, i find that some of the best muslims are converts, i have english and an italian who converted to islam and they practice islam in it's true form without the cultural rubbish, and with all of them, their lives have changed for the better.......
Such debates will never end. I can see it happening in every thread in the Religion section. We are all people of different knowledge / backgrounds here. However, we know the system and how to beat it and so forth. As much as I am enjoying reading through your posts, I find that each person is defending their own beliefs and thoughts, come they from a Religious perspective, or out of some thories. It just takes us back to square 1.
No matter how much you stray away from religion "if you believe in one" and indluge in this life, you would still not allow any discussions concerning what your beliefs are based upon.
No matter how much you stray away from religion "if you believe in one" and indluge in this life, you would still not allow any discussions concerning what your beliefs are based upon.
i think this surah from the qur'aan may be of use
surah kafiroon
بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قُلْ يَاأَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ
لاَ أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
وَلاَ أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
وَلاَ أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَا عَبَدتُّمْ
وَلاَ أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
[Kafiroon 109:1] Proclaim, , “O disbelievers!”
[Kafiroon 109:2] Neither do I worship what you worship.
[Kafiroon 109:3] Nor do you worship Whom I worship.
[Kafiroon 109:4] And neither will I ever worship what you worship.
[Kafiroon 109:5] Nor will you worship Whom I worship.
[Kafiroon 109:6] For you is your religion, and for me is mine.
surah kafiroon
بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قُلْ يَاأَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ
لاَ أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
وَلاَ أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
وَلاَ أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَا عَبَدتُّمْ
وَلاَ أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
[Kafiroon 109:1] Proclaim, , “O disbelievers!”
[Kafiroon 109:2] Neither do I worship what you worship.
[Kafiroon 109:3] Nor do you worship Whom I worship.
[Kafiroon 109:4] And neither will I ever worship what you worship.
[Kafiroon 109:5] Nor will you worship Whom I worship.
[Kafiroon 109:6] For you is your religion, and for me is mine.
it is... i'll try and explain my statement...
when the world says Muslims its synonymous with the middle east... for a long time now, the people of the Middle East have stopped practising Islam the right way... For example, the first Caliphs(leaders) of the muslim community after the Prophet was chosen by the people... somewhere down the line it changed to inheritance... so the leaders changed to rulers/monarchs... so from democracy it went to monarchy... there was the first flaw (solely my opinion)... that continued for a very long time... so its just natural that a lot of manly interests infiltrated into the religion... whereas it wasn't supposed to be so... Islam gives different rights to men and women, in some cases men have rights over their women and in other cases the other way around... over the course of time men started using their rights, but declined to give women theirs... Islam didn't change... Muslims did... Its clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that if you save the life of a human being (not Muslim) its like you have saved the whole of mankind, and if you take the life of another innocent human being its like you have killed the whole of mankind... but still some so called Muslims plant bombs and kill people at will... again Islam is not at fault, Muslims are... why this does happen is that majority of the Muslims learn Islam from their teachers or from their parents... its the same with most of the religions... so if Osama takes the Quran and reads a part of it and says death to the Infidels, his followers believe him... the next time they try to read it themselves it'll still look like what he has said is correct because it has already been sealed in their minds... Again that is not the way Islam was suppossed to be learned... God has given you a brain, use it... the Prophet said to learn the Qur'an and his teachings, and when in doubt to take the opinion of the learned scholars... and that too from more than one scholar... but the Muslims do it the other way round... they learn from the scholars (whose ideas maybe screwed up) and then go down to the Quran... Again the Muslims are at fault, not Islam... Unlike Christianity, the pure form of Islam (because the Quran has never been changed) can still be practised but the Muslims chose not to... I don't and I know most things I do are sins but I still do it... Others chose the complete opposite path of mine and blow up people...
hope I made some sense...
when the world says Muslims its synonymous with the middle east... for a long time now, the people of the Middle East have stopped practising Islam the right way... For example, the first Caliphs(leaders) of the muslim community after the Prophet was chosen by the people... somewhere down the line it changed to inheritance... so the leaders changed to rulers/monarchs... so from democracy it went to monarchy... there was the first flaw (solely my opinion)... that continued for a very long time... so its just natural that a lot of manly interests infiltrated into the religion... whereas it wasn't supposed to be so... Islam gives different rights to men and women, in some cases men have rights over their women and in other cases the other way around... over the course of time men started using their rights, but declined to give women theirs... Islam didn't change... Muslims did... Its clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that if you save the life of a human being (not Muslim) its like you have saved the whole of mankind, and if you take the life of another innocent human being its like you have killed the whole of mankind... but still some so called Muslims plant bombs and kill people at will... again Islam is not at fault, Muslims are... why this does happen is that majority of the Muslims learn Islam from their teachers or from their parents... its the same with most of the religions... so if Osama takes the Quran and reads a part of it and says death to the Infidels, his followers believe him... the next time they try to read it themselves it'll still look like what he has said is correct because it has already been sealed in their minds... Again that is not the way Islam was suppossed to be learned... God has given you a brain, use it... the Prophet said to learn the Qur'an and his teachings, and when in doubt to take the opinion of the learned scholars... and that too from more than one scholar... but the Muslims do it the other way round... they learn from the scholars (whose ideas maybe screwed up) and then go down to the Quran... Again the Muslims are at fault, not Islam... Unlike Christianity, the pure form of Islam (because the Quran has never been changed) can still be practised but the Muslims chose not to... I don't and I know most things I do are sins but I still do it... Others chose the complete opposite path of mine and blow up people...
hope I made some sense...
See I think what you've said is bringing us together within a short distance. What I think however, is that if something can be abused to control people, and in practice it does get abused, all the time, then it deserves to take blame for that. I mean it's like the gun thing Enron mentioned. Guns don't kill, people do. But without guns, people don't have the means (at least it takes a lot more effort). And without religion clever, power hungry bastards would not have an easy means to control people and making them dance to their tune.
Right?
EDIT: We don't like drugs because they are a powerful chemical influence on people, people do things on drugs that they wouldn't do without them. And religion is a powerful psychological influence, by which you can push people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. It's drug, in a way. A dangerous thing that can be used to improve human life or produce suffering.
Right?
EDIT: We don't like drugs because they are a powerful chemical influence on people, people do things on drugs that they wouldn't do without them. And religion is a powerful psychological influence, by which you can push people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. It's drug, in a way. A dangerous thing that can be used to improve human life or produce suffering.
The difference is that capitalism and democracy are not believed to be sent down by God. Islam can be practiced in its truest form if people actually read the Qur'an. If they go off what some corrupt clergy member tells them because they're illiterate and can't read the Qur'an then they're wrong in what ever they hold to be the truth.
We have the source, why not turn to it?
To give you an example, here's an amusing story: We all know that that Spanish is spoken in Nicaragua, yet a Nicaraguan friend of mine convinced a girl that they speak monkey. (True story)
We have the source, why not turn to it?
To give you an example, here's an amusing story: We all know that that Spanish is spoken in Nicaragua, yet a Nicaraguan friend of mine convinced a girl that they speak monkey. (True story)
i'd agree to your statements... but you cannot generalize that to religion alone... clever, power hungry bastards will always find one thing or the other to have easy means to control people... for example in India, leaders use their regions as a way to control people... leaders in Maharashtra (state in india) wants to throw out all non Marathas from the state... if you throw away religion they'll find some other cause, power hungry people will find one way or the other to fulfill their wishes... but yes, historically religion has always been a cause for which people have been used and manipulated... you can't make me accept that religion is bad though 
But how? To brainwash you have to make someone believe something that isn't true. Now take someone from a philosophical or scientific culture and they are used to questioning assumptions, disbelieving things at face value, a culture of pursuit of truth. But now take someone from the church. Do you know what they say in church? They say you are good if you believe. What's more, the more you doubt the gospel, and still believe, the better you are. In other words, the more stubborn, the more unwilling to listen to counter arguments, the more blinded by your one faith, the better person you are. In the church. Now take someone like that and feed him a bunch of malicious bullshit. Is it ANY wonder he's gonna believe it?
That's the whole problem with religion. The sheep mentality. No, don't look there, look here at the pretty gospel. Don't listen to people who deny it, they are trying to deceive you, listen to us, only we tell the truth. It's dishonest, it's harmful and it's a fantastic way to manipulate people.
That's really my objection to religion in general, chiefly Christianity which I know. Everything else is secondary.
That's the whole problem with religion. The sheep mentality. No, don't look there, look here at the pretty gospel. Don't listen to people who deny it, they are trying to deceive you, listen to us, only we tell the truth. It's dishonest, it's harmful and it's a fantastic way to manipulate people.
That's really my objection to religion in general, chiefly Christianity which I know. Everything else is secondary.
I have no idea. As an attempt to answer the question in terms of evolution I would suggest that perhaps religion evolved as a cultural, kind of inborn tendency because it had certain beneficial effects on society. It brought people together maybe, rather than fend for themselves. That's how I see it, an emergent genetic property. Of course this is just my little thought experiment.
It's kind of impossible to answer your question, how could anyone know?
It's kind of impossible to answer your question, how could anyone know?