Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (121 Viewers)

Well, did...

  • Man make God?

  • God make Man?


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Apr 15, 2006
56,640
Elongate your life on earth to enjoys the bounties of it and if the longer time you have on earth the longer time you have to rectify things. Once you're dead you'll be judged on what you did so if you're not living right yet you still have time to get it right.

Why would he be doing better? You enjoy freedom in every single aspect of life every day and look down on places like North Korea because there you have no freedom whatsoever but as soon as you hear that there's a God that has given you free will you can't comprehend it. God could have done without anything "bad" if he was involved with every little aspect of life, from prevent you from stepping into that pothole filled with rainwater to not have anyone die ever but then we'd all be like robots and would have bland boring and meaningless lives. Instead life is more interesting. It's an interesting journey. You go out into the world and you meet new people, share new ideas, explore and observe new things. You go through life without knowing the outcome otherwise what'd be the point? This, what you're doing right now, having this discussion is as a result of this freedom.
But Ze, don't you see how an amputee is NOT gonna be able to enjoy the bounties of life when he's missing an arm or a limb? He won't be able to trek in the wild, play the guitar, be able to dance, ride a bike, etc. Why wouldn't god heal amputees and let them enjoy all the bounties of life?

He would be doing better for the same reason that you mentioned: to elongate life so that we can enjoy the bounties of this transit. You already mentioned that he's provided tools to help us in our lives. All I'm asking is why he doesn't take another step and help the amputees? Not doing so would seem very inconsistent with his desire to help humans, and that help he's provided so far(the tools n stuff) would seem like a half-assed effort at helping. Neither inconsistency not half-assed-ness is a quality that's befitting of a god.

No, if god did away with everything bad, then it sounds to me like we'd be living in heaven. No more war, suffering, people exploiting each other, harming each other, or more importantly, destroying mother nature for his own needs.

But to you, this finite, bountiful, painful and interesting life is only a "transit" to this infinitely bland, boring, meaningless place called heaven where I'll never step into a puddle of water or have interesting conversations with people.

Also, hypothetically, do you really have the guts to tell, say, an ISIS hostage who'll be tortured and beheaded, that life is "interesting" and that all the bad that Allah is allowing to happen to him is all a test to see how he does? Would you really say something like that to someone who's going through immense torment and suffering and would rather have it end(maybe through an act of god?)
You have no follower, bro. You're all alone. You and your spaghetti.
It's perfectly possible that the one true god could have just one, or maybe zero followers whereas a false one could have the whole world believe in him.

Truth isn't determined by popularity.
 

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Raz

Senior Member
Nov 20, 2005
12,218
So god not healing amputees is taken as an argument for his gods non existence. Nothing more to add i guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Truth isn't determined by popularity.
Yeah, but longivity of the religion should account for something. People tend to abandon things that are not true or good for them in the long run.
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
So god not healing amputees is taken as an argument for his gods non existence. Nothing more to add i guess.
If a supposed omni-benevolent being doesn't act very benevolently, then you really have to question that beings' existence.

Yeah, but longivity of the religion should account for something. People tend to abandon things that are not true or good for them in the long run.
No it doesn't. The longevity of the flat earth theory counted for shit when we had photographic evidence that the earth was round. So even the oldest religions can be wrong.
 

Raz

Senior Member
Nov 20, 2005
12,218
If a supposed omni-benevolent being doesn't act very benevolently, then you really have to question that beings' existence.



No it doesn't. The longevity of the flat earth theory counted for shit when we had photographic evidence that the earth was round. So even the oldest religions can be wrong.
Yeah the flat earth is a fairy tail. Anyway, religion is more then flatness then the earth. And if these things that resonate for so long to man don't erode with time it has to have some truth in it. Just because we can now look with bigger telescopes doesn't mean that everything that people felt and experienced through time is wrong suddenly.
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
Yeah the flat earth is a fairy tail. Anyway, religion is more then flatness then the earth. And if these things that resonate for so long to man don't erode with time it has to have some truth in it. Just because we can now look with bigger telescopes doesn't mean that everything that people felt and experienced through time is wrong suddenly.
The flat earth theory and religion are just a bunch of prevalent but unproven ideas. It doesn't matter how long they've managed to sustain in our lives. The only truth about those ideas is what we can prove. That bold sentence is the flaw in your logic. Just because it happened a few thousand years ago doesn't mean it is true also.
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
It was a bad argument since beliefs keep changing. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are "new" religions.
It was a bad example, but in no way a bad argument. It doesn't matter if beliefs change or not. You can't use the duration a belief has existed as a reason to suggest that that belief might be true.

And in the timeline of religions, those 3 are certainly "old" religions. Scientology is a "new" religion.
 

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