Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (33 Viewers)

[pitbull]

"Katyusha"
AK-47
thermonuclear weapon, H-bomb
etc. etc. etc.

right after you hold religion responsible for billions of deaths and preach about the terrorists, you classify the making of arms and bombs as fucking science achievements to be proud of? ain't that some logic man, choose a side already.

 

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[Juventino[RUS]]

right after you hold religion responsible for billions of deaths and preach about the terrorists, you classify the making of arms and bombs as fucking science achievements to be proud of? ain't that some logic man, choose a side already.

Weapon is an achievement , you can't deny it, even knife at ur kitchen is weapon, so what do you want from me - not use it?!

 

[pitbull]

so you're against people killing each other for whatever reasons, but making more and more advanced things with one function - to kill people - is a great achievement? I just don't get your logic, why would you celebrate the making of weapons if you don't enjoy death. ak47 got no use in kitchen.

 

[Bisco]

So what? 96% of the country is muslims, they did it because they want to integrate in the EU zone


I predict this scenario for the europe and russia in the next 10 years


oh boy where did i hear this??!?, hhmmmmmmmmmm bisco when was that..... 1940's may be?





rus sadly you long for a distant past but for the wrong reasons, the soviet union had to offer more than katuycha, or h bombs and what not bec those are killing machines. also your longing for the past seems to have clouded yr mind with demographic facts and trends with in populations that have been occurring for the past 20 years or so, and it just takes a little bit looking around russia to understand the afore mentioned point.

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That's why they are bombing peaceful cities day after day And i love how every defender of quran is saying that all shit is going on because of wrong understanding of this book very, very good position. They send airplanes in the new york because of wrong understanding of quran terrorists are so stupid, they can't even read quran properly

oh yes, as if this has'nt happened to muslim countries. egypt has its share, algeria by far the country that saw the worst of these attacks on its people and it lasted for years!!!, saudi arabia, bahrain, kuwait, libya, etc radical islams have no business to do with religion its merely a cover up for there power hogging ambitions. any way thats all i have to discuss, feel free to carry on with yr hate based visions towards religion, islam if thats your cup of coffee, as for pictures you post you r more than free to do so just remember it reflects the amount of ignorance you have and actually weakens your point of view.

bisco out

 

[Lapa]

Sorry Bisco but your post was way too long for me to read.

Anyways...you probably are religious guy since you live where you live and people over there are pretty religious I guess. I'm fine with religious people as long as they just believe quietly. Nobody wants to hear about your so called Allah and stuff like that, for me it just shows that you are weak and stupid.

Btw, this wasn't directed to you my main man BiscoDisco!

 

[Hust]

Correlation does not imply causation. You've failed to demonstrate how their religiosity is causal to scientific discovery. While we have proof of the opposite. Churches vehemently opposed scientific advancement. Didn't they ask Galileo to recant sons of his findings?

In the end, religious or not, the discoveries were still done by men. God did nothing.

You ask believers to prove their faith, yet make statements like this?

Prove God did nothing.

PS: Thanks for not getting nasty like some others and keeping a discussion going.

 

[Zacheryah]

Soviets had the best scientists in the world, wtf you are talking about

Sorry for beeing of topic, but talking military, current russia has quite a few technologies, better then american equivalent, especially in terms of aircraft. They arent allways entering production because of financial issues, but research continue to go on.

Mig and Sukhoi for example, both got technology superior to F22 technology, but didnt got any of their new projects turned into actual sales to russia in the last 20 or so years. Problem is they cannot sell this new tech to other country's, so they get break even by supplying most of the world with older planes.

Why do you think russia is uses its veto right i navo discuttions to invade certain country's ?
Moar delay, means more purchases of their older tech. good for russian arm's manufactors.


invasions actually happens ? good for us arm's manufactors

 

[Hust]

Sorry for beeing of topic, but talking military, current russia has quite a few technologies, better then american equivalent, especially in terms of aircraft. They arent allways entering production because of financial issues, but research continue to go on.

Mig and Sukhoi for example, both got technology superior to F22 technology, but didnt got any of their new projects turned into actual sales to russia in the last 20 or so years. Problem is they cannot sell this new tech to other country's, so they get break even by supplying most of the world with older planes.

Why do you think russia is uses its veto right i navo discuttions to invade certain country's ?
Moar delay, means more purchases of their older tech. good for russian arm's manufactors.


invasions actually happens ? good for us arm's manufactors

Not sure I agree with that.

 

[Zacheryah]

Their concepts are, but russian goverment didnt funded it to go in production

S47 berkut for example, has a radar signature, between a b2 and a f22, but also had some advanced "plasma" radar absorbtion, where nothing much is known about.

apart from that, it had agility that is far beyond what any us aircraft could do.


its like back in the 90ties, where sukhoi s27 was indredibly superior to f14,15,18. It could carry the payload of a f15, had far the most agility, could land on a carrier, and also had simular acceleration.


now while the S47 is an older prototype, that new mig they are working on is even better.


Did you know, the f22 was actually worse then the f23 ? It was just a bit cheaper, and won the lobby battle.

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The main diffrence between usa and russia is, that usa usually gives an order to produce a new aircraft, and then gets the one that was the best in lobbying.


While in russia, mig and sukhoi sell their older tech worldwide, get some goverment funding, and both do mostly research. Before the f22 was released, us was actually pretty behind compared to mig31 and su27. and even now, the su27 is still more agile then a raptor.

 

[Hust]

Despite the PAk offering a larger weapons pay load than the F22, the F22 still dominates in the tech race: has superior stealth, radar power, more advanced avionics, and speed/supercruise.

The PAK is larger, so its going to have a larger range along with a much larger combat range, but that doens't make the plane superior.

Also, there is still a lot of undisclosed information regarding the f22 thats still top secret.

 

[Zacheryah]

Well, the big problem is, finding info online because since we are english, most will be downplaying the pak, and same for russian intel.

What is known is

F22 has better basic stealth signature, from shape, paint, and engineblock.
pAk has a lesser basic signature, due to the engineblock, and something with the tailwings.

However, they have the plasma technology, of wich nothing much is known, apart from it was that impressive, that russia took the decision to sacrifice better basic stealth, and focus on better agility.


Radar power of a current f22 is very good, but the ones russian contracters have in production are supposed to be simular.

F22 has higher topspeed and supercruise, because its a production aircraft. the pak uses a relatively small concept engine, that isnt the final version. knowing russians, the final engine will be stronger till the point where they would sacrifice agility.


agility, is where the big diffrence comes.
F22 is superior to any production aircraft out there, yet a early 1990ties s47 berkut prototype put it ashame turning wise.
pak would have been more agile by default, but because of that plasma stealth, they sacrificed some more basic stealth, to make them even more agile.


undisclosed info on the F22 is mostly speed.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

You ask believers to prove their faith, yet make statements like this?

Prove God did nothing.

PS: Thanks for not getting nasty like some others and keeping a discussion going.

I said that in the context of religions influence on scientists and scientific discoveries. It's men who observe the world, formulate hypotheses to explain the observed phenomena, perform experiments and publish their findings. Saying "god did nothing" was a short and dramatic way of saying that god or religion was not involved in the process of discovery. And regardless of the religiosity of the scientist, his experiments will always lead to the same conclusion. The truth is indifferent to what we believe.

 

[Hust]

Well, the big problem is, finding info online because since we are english, most will be downplaying the pak, and same for russian intel.

What is known is

F22 has better basic stealth signature, from shape, paint, and engineblock.
pAk has a lesser basic signature, due to the engineblock, and something with the tailwings.

However, they have the plasma technology, of wich nothing much is known, apart from it was that impressive, that russia took the decision to sacrifice better basic stealth, and focus on better agility.

Radar power of a current f22 is very good, but the ones russian contracters have in production are supposed to be simular.

F22 has higher topspeed and supercruise, because its a production aircraft. the pak uses a relatively small engine, that isnt the final version. knowing russians, the final engine will be stronger till the point where they would sacrifice agility


in therms of agility, the pak has all the tricks russians offer, and is much more agile. stealth was sacrificed to maximise their turning, and in short range combat, a pak will allways be on top. furthermore, it has a higher chance to avoid missles from afar, coupled with electronic countermeasures


undisclosed info on the F22 is mostly speed.

I tried finding if the PAK can do a verticle takeoff. I've seen an F22 do it before, its sick.

Agility will go to the Pak for sure, however the 35,000 pds of thrust from each Pratt & Whitney engine on the f22 is insane for its size. Problem going stealth for the Pak is if it's carrying external missles, but same can go for the f22.

As for the JSF35, won't take much to take that one out in a dog fight...but again that will also have very similar radar/avionic technology that the f22 already has. From what I hear the 6th generations are gonna be boss.

I'm dating an F-18 Super Hornet pilot and she even gives the russians major kudos for their fighter jets.

 

[Martin]

I'm dating an F-18 Super Hornet pilot and she even gives the russians major kudos for their fighter jets.

wut?

 

[Hust]

I said that in the context of religions influence on scientists and scientific discoveries. It's men who observe the world, formulate hypotheses to explain the observed phenomena, perform experiments and publish their findings. Saying "god did nothing" was a short and dramatic way of saying that god or religion was not involved in the process of discovery. And regardless of the religiosity of the scientist, his experiments will always lead to the same conclusion. The truth is indifferent to what we believe.

One of religious beliefs could argue God giving humans "free will" was the reason for mans ability to discover and invent...natural curiosity. Still, my faith tells me that nothing was meant to be hidden from man (all that God created) because what significance would that be if everything was meant to be hidden. There would be no journey...just life.

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wut?

??

 

[Martin]

One of religious beliefs could argue God giving humans "free will" was the reason for mans ability to discover and invent...natural curiosity. Still, my faith tells me that nothing was meant to be hidden from man (all that God created) because what significance would that be if everything was meant to be hidden. There would be no journey...just life.

wut2?

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??

convenient anecdote much?

 

[Hust]

*sigh*

what is it martin?

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wut2?





convenient anecdote much?

perhaps

 

[Martin]

*sigh*

what is it martin?

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perhaps

What is with these bizarre new statements? Dating pilots and going to church? Where is the Cam we know?

 

[Hust]

What is with these bizarre new statements? Dating pilots and going to church? Where is the Cam we know?

I've always gone to church, well not always...but I'm a believer.

The pilot though, sorta fell out of the sky

(sticking with the subject/humor)

 

[Martin]

I've always gone to church, well not always...but I'm a believer.

The pilot though, sorta fell out of the sky

(sticking with the subject/humor)

I don't like this, go back.