Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (14 Viewers)

[Juventino[RUS]]

Man why do you have to be so thick-headed sometimes? It's really a simple point to understand. You are NOT athiest if you have 0 knowledge of religion, god(s), atheism etc. Don't know who Jesus is, what is buddhism, who/what is god. That is NOT atheism. Can you not understand that simple point???

Atheism is the rejection of the belief of deity/s. You cannot reject an idea you don't know about.

Why should atheist read bible/quran if most of believers are not reading them ?! lol

---------- Post added 11.08.2012 at 20:15 ----------

Its sad really because it doesn't become a discussion at that point especially with RUS it just becomes a display

Oh, yes , but you tell me which god exist - Allah, god of Christians or maybe Zeus ?

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

Man why do you have to be so thick-headed sometimes? It's really a simple point to understand. You are NOT athiest if you have 0 knowledge of religion, god(s), atheism etc. Don't know who Jesus is, what is buddhism, who/what is god. That is NOT atheism. Can you not understand that simple point???

Atheism is the rejection of the belief of deity/s. You cannot reject an idea you don't know about.

I'm not being thick headed. My argument is simple too: If you do not have a positive belief in a god, you're an atheist. Simple.

He chooses not to and play his little games thats how sheik is in this thread. It's really for his own sake. He's more scared and confused when it comes to God than he admits. RUS on the other hand is just a communist wallowing in his arrogant stupidity

Confused, maybe. Scared? I can't be scared of something unreal.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I'm not being thick headed. My argument is simple too: If you do not have a positive belief in a god, you're an atheist. Simple.


Confused, maybe. Scared? I can't be scared of something unreal.

This. I love how believers are calling me omen and that I will o to hell definitely and the demons are inside me

 

[Salvo]

no im saying you cant disbelieve what you never knew

But you do not believe in it either, you are ignorant to the idea of it thus you do not believe it.

 

[Salvo]

You either believe parents can bring up their child as whatever the parents are (religious or atheist) or nothing at all. Nothing at all does not mean atheist, more like oblivious to religion.

You CANNOT say they can bring them up as athiest but not religious.

In this world you cannot bring children up being oblivious to religion.
I would bring my Children up claiming that The Easter bunny and Santa Claus are real entities, beings that we pray too. But wait if I did that I would probably have my kids taken away...Ironic isn't it.

But more on topic If you do not know of something you do not believe in it, you are by definition an atheist in this case. You do not believe in that particular religious idea...

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think the reason AC and MV are defining atheism in that way is to save themselves from being called atheists to the hundreds/thousands of gods they don't know about.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I think the reason AC and MV are defining atheism in that way is to save themselves from being called atheists to the hundreds/thousands of gods they don't know about.

Yes, the worst shit for believers (except Hell) is to understand that the are atheist to other religions/gods

 

[Klin]

What a boring thread.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

But you do not believe in it either, you are ignorant to the idea of it thus you do not believe it.

Ignorance of an idea does not equate disbelief. Having no knowledge does not mean unbelief it means unknowing

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I think the reason AC and MV are defining atheism in that way is to save themselves from being called atheists to the hundreds/thousands of gods they don't know about.

Sometimes your arrogance hides your stupidity. I can not disbelieve something I know not off. If I know of Gods or belief systems and have knowledge of them then I can believe or disbelieve. Having no knowledge of something you can not have a point of view if you not of it.

 

[IrishZebra]

I think the reason AC and MV are defining atheism in that way is to save themselves from being called atheists to the hundreds/thousands of gods they don't know about.

Without theism - the only definition that makes sense.
'Atheism' is a dogma just like Christianity. Rejecting the possibility of a God as a fact is a pointless position. Agnosticism defined as 'assuming false until satisfied' is a different kettle of fish altogether, then agains like AC calling RUS and commie while he's a die hard Capitalist. Two ideologies proclaiming truth and attempting to Rubbish each other when on balance both sides have strengths and weaknesses that they refuse to admit.

AC has faith, and so long as that pushes him toward treating people the way Jesus meant with love, including gays/atheists/abortionists/whatever then it can only be a good thing. Arguing about the meta-message refuses to accept the unique nature of every theists relationship with God.

What a boring thread.

I've left the Religion threads alone far too long

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Without theism - the only definition that makes sense.
'Atheism' is a dogma just like Christianity. Rejecting the possibility of a God as a fact is a pointless position. Agnosticism defined as 'assuming false until satisfied' is a different kettle of fish altogether, then agains like AC calling RUS and commie while he's a die hard Capitalist. Two ideologies proclaiming truth and attempting to Rubbish each other when on balance both sides have strengths and weaknesses that they refuse to admit.

AC has faith, and so long as that pushes him toward treating people the way Jesus meant with love, including gays/atheists/abortionists/whatever then it can only be a good thing. Arguing about the meta-message refuses to accept the unique nature of every theists relationship with God.





I've left the Religion threads alone far too long

I just call RUS a commie in jest because of Russia you make valid points brother

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Sometimes your arrogance hides your stupidity. I can not disbelieve something I know not off. If I know of Gods or belief systems and have knowledge of them then I can believe or disbelieve. Having no knowledge of something you can not have a point of view if you not of it.

So it's wrong when only I do it? Come on, AC!

Let me try explaining it again: regardless of whether you are aware of the claim of a particular god or not, a positive belief(ex: "I believe god X exists") is not part of your belief system. It's simply not part of the subset of positive beliefs you have. Therefore, you are an atheist due to the lack of that belief.

Capisco?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

So it's wrong when only I do it? Come on, AC!

Let me try explaining it again: regardless of whether you are aware of the claim of a particular god or not, a positive belief(ex: "I believe god X exists") is not part of your belief system. It's simply not part of the subset of positive beliefs you have. Therefore, you are an atheist due to the lack of that belief.

Capisco?

It's only that way when you do it because in my opinion in our personal conversations you approach this subject very differently than how you do in this thread. Now on to your explanation I understand what you are trying ro say but in the end you have to understand our point. If you have no knowledge of something you can not form a belief or an opinion on said subject. Be it a deity or any type of information. If you have no knowledge whatsoever of quantum mechanics you won't have an idea or opinion on what it is.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It's only that way when you do it because in my opinion in our personal conversations you approach this subject very differently than how you do in this thread. Now on to your explanation I understand what you are trying ro say but in the end you have to understand our point. If you have no knowledge of something you can not form a belief or an opinion on said subject. Be it a deity or any type of information. If you have no knowledge whatsoever of quantum mechanics you won't have an idea or opinion on what it is.

In that case, you actually DO become an a-quantum mechanist. That's my point.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Perhaps because it helps overcome some of the fear and insecurity of not knowing our origins, our death and how the world around us works.

no, the why was to explain how it all started in different places across different times spontaneously. Fact is, belief is an integral part of human fabric and simply undeniable in the human experience so far on this earth.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

no, the why was to explain how it all started in different places across different times spontaneously. Fact is, belief is an integral part of human fabric and simply undeniable in the human experience so far on this earth.

I agree with that. All I want to do is believe in something because there's a good reason to believe it and not believing simply for the sake of it. I hope we are in agreement there also.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

yes, we are but you cant fool yourself into trying to look for reason that would make it fact, because it will always be belief and that factual "reason" nonexistent

 

[JuveJay]

I've left the Religion threads alone far too long

Actually, this is the first time I've seen this thread called boring, and it coincides with your return. Just saying.



---------- Post added 11.08.2012 at 21:13 ----------

yes, we are but you cant fool yourself into trying to look for reason that would make it fact, because it will always be belief and that factual "reason" nonexistent

I believe you are right.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

but you cant fool yourself into trying to look for reason that would make it fact, because it will always be belief and that factual "reason" nonexistent

How would I avoid doing that then?