Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (39 Viewers)

[X Æ A-12]

When somebody is clinically dead for 48 hours and then comes back alive.

Can you show love? How do you actually see that?

If you can't see something it doesn't have to mean it's non-existable.

"Clinical death" is not actual death though. The brain has not stopped working, if it does, as in actual death, then you do not come back from that. And nobody has survived it for anywhere near 48 hours.

and yes the chemical reaction associated with feelings of love is visible in the brain.
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[Dostoevsky]

That's my point, the first one can't be proven. It was in a book.

You can't prove it's not a miracle either.

 

[ALC]

You can't prove it's not a miracle either.

No, I mean you can't prove that someone died for 48 hours and came back. It was written in the bible.

 

[Dostoevsky]

"Clinical death" is not actual death though. The brain has not stopped working, if it does, as in actual death, then you do not come back from that. And nobody has survived it for anywhere near 48 hours.

and yes the chemical reaction associated with feelings of love is visible in the brain.
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No, I mean you can't prove that someone died for 48 hours and came back. It was written in the bible.

Was just an example. But your hearth isn't working and you're not even breathing.

I thought of Muamba who was in that 'mode' for 80 minutes.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

They always find a way to back out of reasoning.

i.e. Opium for the masses.

lol exactly. If your perspective in life is that bubblegummed up, then there's something wrong.

Don't get me wrong, you can appreciate the small stuff and all but not call it a miracle.

it's really not hard to figure out, he believes in an omnipotent God, defying rules he set Himself is hardly a stretch. Now, you dont believe in God you believe in physics and other empirically based evidence. So the a priori here is that God exists, kinda silly opium boy to be arguying what God can do if you dont believe in him.

 

[ALC]

Was just an example. But your hearth isn't working and you're not even breathing.

I thought of Muamba who was in that 'mode' for 80 minutes.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of too. That's basically what it is, your heart not working. That stops the flow of blood/oxygen to the brain and that's why everyone was worried about Muamba having brain damage. Soon after you'll die if nothing happens.

 

[JuveJay]

Was just an example. But your hearth isn't working and you're not even breathing.

I thought of Muamba who was in that 'mode' for 80 minutes.

There are also natural poisons that can render the body 'lifeless' in effect, even though the brain and heart may almost stop, cells are not dying.

 

[Fred]

it's really not hard to figure out, he believes in an omnipotent God, defying rules he set Himself is hardly a stretch. Now, you dont believe in God you believe in physics and other empirically based evidence. So the a priori here is that God exists, kinda silly opium boy to be arguying what God can do if you dont believe in him.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[ALC]

No offense, but what's silly is believing in him in the first place.

 

[king Ale]

it's really not hard to figure out, he believes in an omnipotent God, defying rules he set Himself is hardly a stretch. Now, you dont believe in God you believe in physics and other empirically based evidence. So the a priori here is that God exists, kinda silly opium boy to be arguying what God can do if you dont believe in him.

I have noticed that it's the problem with a big part of discussions here; You can't ignore the premise and expect to get an explanation within the boundaries of what you yourself believe in at the same time. When you don't believe in an all powerful being, it doesn't make sense to ask about hows of what physics can't explain.

As for supernatural events, one can believe in god's existence AND still rejects the possibility of miracles though.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

No offense, but what's silly is believing in him in the first place.

The problem is its silly to you because you live in a world with limits and boundaries and nothing for you exists outside the realm of human possibility.

 

[Fred]

No offense, but what's silly is believing in him in the first place.

Thats your opinion.

 

[king Ale]

No offense, but what's silly is believing in him in the first place.

Neither side can theoretically prove their claim so the only silly thing here is imo calling the other side silly.

 

[JuveJay]

Seems like there is nothing more to say then, close thread.

 

[king Ale]

Seems like there is nothing more to say then, close thread.

Not a bad idea but I don't think it's unhealthy to read others' opinions and discuss them without taking an arrogant attitude about knowing what we theoretically have no proofs for whatsoever.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

and we all lived happily ever after

 

[Raz]

Not a bad idea but I don't think it's unhealthy to read others' opinions and discuss them without taking an arrogant attitude about knowing what we theoretically have no proofs for whatsoever.

Agree.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

it's really not hard to figure out, he believes in an omnipotent God, defying rules he set Himself is hardly a stretch. Now, you dont believe in God you believe in physics and other empirically based evidence. So the a priori here is that God exists, kinda silly opium boy to be arguying what God can do if you dont believe in him.

If waking up in the morning and drops of water are miracles, then what isn't? That's what's the opium - being stubbornly sheepy, making claims like that without even thinking about it.

 

[ALC]

Neither side can theoretically prove their claim so the only silly thing here is imo calling the other side silly.

Well, Deneb started it.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

If waking up in the morning and drops of water are miracles, then what isn't? That's what's the opium - being stubbornly sheepy, making claims like that without even thinking about it.

Are you jealous because that makes him happy coz i dont see any other explanation. As stated above, if you choose to see it in H2O molecules thats your prerogative, if he wants to see as bounties from his Creator how does that affect you?

---------- Post added 23.03.2012 at 17:36 ----------

Well, Deneb started it.

for the record i called your arguing miracles because you dont believe in an omnipotent entity silly, actually thats extremely silly.