Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (25 Viewers)

[Martin]

True humility and wisdom lies in the acceptance and realization that we do not know anything.

And mental health lies in the realization that we do in fact know something, despite our leanings to be self deprecating. I read Descartes, his big mission to question everything. Except that the one thing he found self evident was god and creation, so swing and a miss. Completely failed to rise above his own age.

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

You got me, Martin.

Isn't that kind of the point behind atheism? We don't know dick.

Nope, that's agnosticism.

 

[Naggar]

True humility and wisdom lies in the acceptance and realization that we do not know anything.

+rep

 

[X Æ A-12]

And mental health lies in the realization that we do in fact know something, despite our leanings to be self deprecating. I read Descartes, his big mission to question everything. Except that the one thing he found self evident was god and creation, so swing and a miss. Completely failed to rise above his own age.

Descartes own personal failings don't mean he wasn't on to something though.

You got me, Martin.



Nope, that's agnosticism.

No doesn't agnosticism mean a belief in some kind of god?

 

[Naggar]

I'll try to reply tomorrow sheik, sorry head is shutting down

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'd like to make a small edit:

True humility and wisdom lies in the acceptance and realization that we do not know anything about the unknown.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

No doesn't agnosticism mean a belief in some kind of god?

Agnosticism is the belief that we don't know and may never find out if god exists. Belief in some god constitutes theism.

I'll try to reply tomorrow sheik, sorry head is shutting down

No problem.

 

[Naggar]

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Socrates

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Socrates

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates

I did not know that that was a quote by Socrates.

 

[Martin]

To say that "we know nothing" is help up as some kind of wisdom, which I think is really silly.

It's analogous to saying "we remember nothing". How many of the things you have witnessed in your life do you actively remember? Close to 0%.

Or to saying "we don't live at all". How long is your life compared to the age of the universe?

Is that wisdom too?

 

[Naggar]

I love those philosophers who lived zillions of years ago, they had absolutely nothing to begin with but they used their brains and added much to human knowledge, now you have heavy text books and you'd have to spend your whole life studying just to add a line to a book.

 

[Martin]

I love those philosophers who lived zillions of years ago, they had absolutely nothing to begin with but they used their brains and added much to human knowledge, now you have heavy text books and you'd have to spend your whole life studying just to add a line to a book.

True. You see, what you said is much more wise than "we know nothing".

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

To say that "we know nothing" is help up as some kind of wisdom, which I think is really silly.

It's analogous to saying "we remember nothing". How many of the things you have witnessed in your life do you actively remember? Close to 0%.

Or to saying "we don't live at all". How long is your life compared to the age of the universe?

Is that wisdom too?

Actually, I remember roughly about 30% of my life.

 

[Martin]

Actually, I remember roughly about 30% of my life.

And you know this how? By remembering 100% and referring to that as yardstick to measure the amount you remember?

 

[Naggar]

True. You see, what you said is much more wise than "we know nothing".

I think what Socrates meant is that with all his knowledge (being the greatest of his time) he knows -relatively- nothing compared to the amount of knowledge humans will reach, and look at us today, Socrates knew nothing compared to you and me
and of course we both know nothing compared to our grand grand children..
it's something but it's too little close to nothing.

Edit:

and if you think you know everything then you'll never learn anything again, as long as you tell yourself 'I don't know' you'll seek more knowledge.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think what Socrates meant is that with all his knowledge (being the greatest of his time) he knows -relatively- nothing compared to the amount of knowledge humans will reach, and look at us today, Socrates knew nothing compared to you and me
and of course we both know nothing compared to our grand grand children..
it's something but it's too little close to nothing.

But without knowing how much is unknown, how do we know how much we know compared to the unknown?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

And mental health lies in the realization that we do in fact know something, despite our leanings to be self deprecating. I read Descartes, his big mission to question everything. Except that the one thing he found self evident was god and creation, so swing and a miss. Completely failed to rise above his own age.

mmh i wouldnt use self-evident, rather a priori in nature(or argumentation), his ontological argument was thoroughly deconstructed afterwards but still he did put time and effort into formulating it so i wouldnt say there was no questioning on his part

 

[ALC]

Isn't that kind of the point behind atheism? We don't know dick.

I know a dick when I see one.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]