Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (19 Viewers)

[AndreaCristiano]

I'm talking about causality. The whole original sin scenario could've been avoided by god if he simply did not put the tree of knowledge in Eden, or put the snake in the garden. But god knew the consequence of putting it there, yet decided it put it. Therefore, it's gods fault.

No you're wrong its our fault for making the decisions. God knows all outcomes we just chose this path. Once again for our free will to be that which it is Free we needed to have a choice of paths if not there would be no choice , no free will

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

Not impossible. Your perception doesn't allow you to see because you chose to only believe what your senses comprehend. While many people through prayer, meditation etc have transcended those senses and felt Gods presence. Be it the Dali lama, a rabbi, pastor or believer

Believe me when I say that I've tried my share of prayer and meditation when I was a kid. It yielded nothing.

Also, god created me to believe in what my senses comprehend. So why is god asking me to have faith when he clearly knows how to make me believe? Why is he being so counter-productive?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Believe me when I say that I've tried my share of prayer and meditation when I was a kid. It yielded nothing.

Also, god created me to believe in what my senses comprehend. So why is god asking me to have faith when he clearly knows how to make me believe? Why is he being so counter-productive?

Paths my friend. Also meditation and prayer have to be done with the right heart. We can't do it out if obligation or out of wanting to see. Thou shall not put the Lord your God to the test. For true prayer and meditation to work we have to let go of our preconceptions, our reality as it were

 

[Jem83]

T-shirt material, Sheik

"GOD IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE"

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

No you're wrong its our fault for making the decisions. God knows all outcomes we just chose this path. Once again for our free will to be that which it is Free we needed to have a choice of paths if not there would be no choice , no free will

You don't get my point. If god did not want them to eat from the tree of knowledge, then why even put it in their vicinity? That's like putting a rapist and a woman in the same room and commanding the rapist he doesn't rape the woman. If you don't want him to rape the woman, don't put them in the same room!

 

[AndreaCristiano]

You don't get my point. If god did not want them to eat from the tree of knowledge, then why even put it in their vicinity? That's like putting a rapist and a woman in the same room and commanding the rapist he doesn't $#@! the woman. If you don't want him to $#@! the woman, don't put them in the same room!

I do get your point. How would God allow us to use free will if he didn't give us a choice? Also who says that God didnt want us to eat it ?

 

[Goodfella]

It's a test of faith, wiseacre.

 

[Trequartista]

Not this again

 

[Jem83]

You don't get my point. If god did not want them to eat from the tree of knowledge, then why even put it in their vicinity? That's like putting a rapist and a woman in the same room and commanding the rapist he doesn't rape the woman. If you don't want him to rape the woman, don't put them in the same room!

We need to get this guy to a church ^

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Not this again

Indeed. I'm outta here too

 

[Zacheryah]

no.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Put it this way. If I created a creature and gave it reason, free will and intellect and decided all I would do is leave it in the place where it was created and it could only eat what I gave it and live how and when I told it too then how would any of those attributes I gave to it work or be used? They couldn't as there were no choices, paths or decisions for the creature to make

 

[Martin]

Not this again

fuoriclasse? that's pushing it

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Paths my friend. Also meditation and prayer have to be done with the right heart. We can't do it out if obligation or out of wanting to see. Thou shall not put the Lord your God to the test. For true prayer and meditation to work we have to let go of our preconceptions, our reality as it were

When I was into prayer and meditation, I never had a mole of doubt in god. It was the purest faith I had in god all my life. I never contemplated the idea of testing god back then. Yet I neither experienced god not communicated with him.

Like I said, being the all-powerful and all-knowing one, god can make a believer if he wishes. He just chooses not to due to his arrogance.

T-shirt material, Sheik

"GOD IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE"

 

[Trequartista]

fuoriclasse? that's pushing it

Che cazzo vuoi?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

When I was into prayer and meditation, I never had a mole of doubt in god. It was the purest faith I had in god all my life. I never contemplated the idea of testing god back then. Yet I neither experienced god not communicated with him.

Like I said, being the all-powerful and all-knowing one, god can make a believer if he wishes. He just chooses not to due to his arrogance.

That last statement is your arrogance if he made you a believer than what is the point in reason, free will and intellect we might as well have been monkeys

 

[satfootball]

after 40 years, i havent found god.

 

[Martin]

Che cazzo vuoi?

calma, ragazzo

 

[Trequartista]

calma, ragazzo

va bene.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I do get your point. How would God allow us to use free will if he didn't give us a choice? Also who says that God didnt want us to eat it ?

Who says he didn't want us to eat it? Ummm... the Bible?

Genesis 2:17: "...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Also, if he really didn't want mindless zombies, shouldn't he say "Do whatever you want in the garden"?

It's a test of faith, wiseacre.

Poor argument. The all-knowing god already knows if I have faith or not, rendering the result of the test pointless.

Put it this way. If I created a creature and gave it reason, free will and intellect and decided all I would do is leave it in the place where it was created and it could only eat what I gave it and live how and when I told it too then how would any of those attributes I gave to it work or be used? They couldn't as there were no choices, paths or decisions for the creature to make

Well you're not god, so your problem-solving capabilities are fairly diminished in this case. But if that's the best way he could get humans to do all those things, then I question his intelligence.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

after 40 years, i havent found god.

Maybe your looking in the wrong places. Ya know he's an analogy with my fiance the love of my life, before her and I got together I searched for a GF constantly thinking I could find the right one. Went from relationship to relationship different girl to different girl. Then finally when I surrendered and just let it happen she walked into my life forever changing it. With God we have to surrender and let him in. As humans we more often than not barely let other humans in let alone God