Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (24 Viewers)

[Ford Prefect]

Sheik I wouldn't read much into that, whilst in the developed/western world those numbers might be rising, that is against population rising. Also the populations of the north african/arab & persian peninsula states continue rise - whilst every child is born an athiest, about 10 seconds later they become muslims. China might be a big reason for the atheist numbers rising - billions of people in a not very religious/minority - multi religious state.

 

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[Fred]

Sheik I wouldn't read much into that, whilst in the developed/western world those numbers might be rising, that is against population rising. Also the populations of the north african/arab & persian peninsula states continue rise - whilst every child is born an athiest, about 10 seconds later they become muslims. China might be a big reason for the atheist numbers rising - billions of people in a not very religious/minority - multi religious state.

Depends how you define atheism really. Do you define it as the conscious rejection of the concept of a deity, or do you broaden it to anyone who is not a theist is an atheist?

 

[Martin]

He means everyone who hasn't yet been indoctrinated into religion is atheist.

 

[Fred]

He means everyone who hasn't yet been indoctrinated into religion is atheist.

I'd contest that. The kid hasn't been indoctrinated into atheism yet either.

 

[Martin]

I'd contest that. The kid hasn't been indoctrinated into atheism yet either.

How is it possible to be indoctrinated into not having a belief? t=0, birth, no belief. t=6 years old, no belief. Where exactly did the indoctrination take place?

 

[Fred]

How is it possible to be indoctrinated into not having a belief? t=0, birth, no belief. t=6 years old, no belief. Where exactly did the indoctrination take place?

An atheist to me is someone who consciously denies the existence of a deity.

So being atheist is also believing something.

 

[Martin]

An atheist to me is someone who consciously denies the existence of a deity.

So being atheist is also believing something.

Atheist means not-theist, get it? It's like not-black, it doesn't mean you had to be black for a while, decide it wasn't for you and go white like Michael Jackson.

You also don't have to smoke first to become a non-smoker.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

How is it possible to be indoctrinated into not having a belief? t=0, birth, no belief. t=6 years old, no belief. Where exactly did the indoctrination take place?

we go back to the same argument, where did it start then? and why have cultures/civilizations all across the globe had and maintained belief throughout recordable history? freddy has a point here

 

[Fred]

Atheist means not-theist, get it? It's like not-black, it doesn't mean you had to be black for a while, decide it wasn't for you and go white like Michael Jackson.

You also don't have to smoke first to become a non-smoker.

Whats there not to get? you're espousing a black and white logic. I think its more complex than that. You can't call newborns atheists imo.

we go back to the same argument, where did it start then? and why have cultures/civilizations all across the globe had and maintained belief throughout recordable history? freddy has a point here

Fitrah

 

[GordoDeCentral]

it is as natural and transcendental as dancing or singing

 

[Seven]

Martin, atheism is excluding the possibility of a higher being. That is just as nonsensical as claiming there has to be one. Either attitude is based on belief.

 

[Nzoric]

Be a better historian. That is what religion is to you (and me). The viewpoint of someone who is religious is very different and thus sodomy can be defined by religious rules.

the viewpointo f someone who is religious is irrelevant in an academical context - especially history. There are alot of religious individuals studying history at my university, and the first thing they were told when they entered the building was to leave that outside because there was no room for it here. Striving towards objectivity is the prime goal, and when we're describing history and depicting religion there is no room for personal belief or bias.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

An atheist to me is someone who consciously denies the existence of a deity.

So being atheist is also believing something.

What do you call someone who unconsciously denies the existence of a deity?

ALL humans believe in SOMETHING. It's human nature. It ax consequence of experience and knowledge. When it comes to god, we're not objecting to the fact that you believe in god, but we object to the reasons for which it believe in it.

Martin, atheism is excluding the possibility of a higher being. That is just as nonsensical as claiming there has to be one. Either attitude is based on belief.

Wrong! Not excluding, but dismissing. Any reasonable atheist would not fully dismiss the possible existence if a god. They would more likely ask for evidence, and be willing to change their mind if credible evidence is presented.

 

[ZoSo]

What do you call someone who unconsciously denies the existence of a deity?

ALL humans believe in SOMETHING. It's human nature. It ax consequence of experience and knowledge. When it comes to god, we're not objecting to the fact that you believe in god, but we object to the reasons for which it believe in it.



Wrong! Not excluding, but dismissing. Any reasonable atheist would not fully dismiss the possible existence if a god. They would more likely ask for evidence, and be willing to change their mind if credible evidence is oriented.

So that's why a large portion of atheists don't know what they're talking about but like to insult religious people and religion for laughs & popularity.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I meant to type 'presented' there. Damn word suggestion!

 

[ZoSo]

I was laughing at the sentence, I know what you meant.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So that's why a large portion of atheists don't know what they're talking about but like to insult religious people and religion for laughs & popularity.

Most of the outspoken atheists that I know quite clearly know what they're taking about, actually.

 

[ZoSo]

And you know there are also plenty of what I said. Just like there are plenty of overly religious nuts.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

And you know there are also plenty of what I said. Just like there are plenty of overly religious nuts.

Not really. I rarely come across nutjobs like Juve Rus.

 

[ZoSo]

Just because you don't come across many doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them.