Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (25 Viewers)

[Sheik Yerbouti]

yes we do! Just because one sees all possible outcomes doesnt mean he affects or changes our will! why is it so hard for you to comprehend, you all speak of being so learned yet you can't grasp simple things

Oh FFS! Not only does he sees all outcomes, he knows what choices I'll make. Therefore it's not true free will. It's only an illusion of free will. You can't grasp this simple thing either.

you're welcome, let me know when you're past the musings of 12 yo's

I won't need to. I'm sure you smart enough to identify when I'm past my 12 yo. musings.

 

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[Zlatan]

God knows all possible outcomes he lives in the infinite now so he sees all possible futures

But knowing the future also means he knows which future we will choose. Thats the point.


Otherwise he is not omnipotent.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Oh FFS! Not only does he sees all outcomes, he knows what choices I'll make. Therefore it's not true free will. It's only an illusion of free will. You can't grasp this simple thing either.



I won't need to. I'm sure you smart enough to identify when I'm past my 12 yo. musings.

ok im gonna explain this slow, he sees all outcomes and all your choices but because of free will he CAN NOT see which choice YOU WILL MAKE. HOLY SHIT its like talking to a toddler sometimes, you only hear what the fuck you want

 

[Zlatan]

yes we do! Just because one sees all possible outcomes doesnt mean he affects or changes our will! why is it so hard for you to comprehend, you all speak of being so learned yet you can't grasp simple things

We understand, but you dont understand our point. Does he know what we will choose? Yes: there is no point in life. No: he is not omnipotent.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 17:15 ----------

ok im gonna explain this slow, he sees all outcomes and all your choices but because of free will he CAN NOT see which choice YOU WILL MAKE. HOLY SHIT its like talking to a toddler sometimes, you only hear what the fuck you want

Does that mean he is not onmipotent?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

But knowing the future also means he knows which future we will choose. Thats the point.


Otherwise he is not omnipotent.

incorrect, knowing all future outcomes makes him omnipotent, because in every scenario he knows what our outcome will be he just doesnt interfere nor allow himself to know which we will choose because he gave us free will

 

[Zlatan]

incorrect, knowing all future outcomes makes him omnipotent, because in every scenario he knows what our outcome will be he just doesnt interfere nor allow himself to know which we will choose because he gave us free will

OK, so now you are saying he is limiting his own power? Why?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

OK, so now you are saying he is limiting his own power? Why?

He did it to allow us to freely choose him, he didnt want drones or zombie children he wanted us to choose him out of our love and desire to be with him, thats why he made us in his image with free will, reason, and a soul unlike the other animals

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

ok im gonna explain this slow, he sees all outcomes and all your choices but because of free will he CAN NOT see which choice YOU WILL MAKE. HOLY SHIT its like talking to a toddler sometimes, you only hear what the fuck you want

Fine. Then he's not omnipotent. Therefore he is not god. Seriously, you seem to be the toddler here!

incorrect, knowing all future outcomes makes him omnipotent, because in every scenario he knows what our outcome will be he just doesnt interfere nor allow himself to know which we will choose because he gave us free will

Knowing all future outcomes makes him omniscient, not omnipotent. Seriously, look them up in a dictionary!

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Thanks bro, it seems like they do not want to comprehend anything I am saying, am I explaining it incorrectly?

answer everything with yes he can obama style can he make the burrito yes he can, then guess what he can eat it too. As far as capacity and action on that capacity those are 2 different things: He can impede on free will but will he? As for why are we here, He is also the most just and him simply knowing and codemning people based on what he knows they will do is not as just as making you the witness to your own actions.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Fine. Then he's not omnipotent. Therefore he is not god. Seriously, you seem to be the toddler here!



Knowing all future outcomes makes him omniscient, not omnipotent. Seriously, look them up in a dictionary!

seriously your petulant picking and choosing of what i say is at best annoying

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:21 ----------

answer everything with yes he can obama style can he make the burrito yes he can, then guess what he can eat it too. As far as capacity and action on that capacity those are 2 different things: He can impede on free will but will he? As for why are we here, He is also the most just and him simply knowing and codemning people based on what he knows they will do is not as just as making you the witness to your own actions.

Thank you Jesus someone who understands! It's like these guys have boxed themselves into their reason and laws of science for so long that anything remotely outside that realm is unfathomable to comprehend

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

seriously your petulant picking and choosing of what i say is at best annoying

And your complete ignorance of what I say is, at the least, dishonest and annoying.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 21:01 ----------

answer everything with yes he can obama style can he make the burrito yes he can, then guess what he can eat it too. As far as capacity and action on that capacity those are 2 different things: He can impede on free will but will he? As for why are we here, He is also the most just and him simply knowing and codemning people based on what he knows they will do is not as just as making you the witness to your own actions.

Claim after claim after claim. That's all you believers have. Seems more 12 yo-ish than my arguments. I expected better from you, Deneb.

 

[Zlatan]

He did it to allow us to freely choose him, he didnt want drones or zombie children he wanted us to choose him out of our love and desire to be with him, thats why he made us in his image with free will, reason, and a soul unlike the other animals

Ok, fine. He limited his own power in order to give us free will. But what is the point of free will? If the point is to see what we will do so to place us either in heaven or hell, then he could just as esily done that without life by his own knowledge of what we will do. Free will is not a purpose iin itself, its point is to judge us, which he can do already because he knows the outcome of our free will. Henfce, no point in the test called life.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

And your complete ignorance of what I say is, at the least, dishonest and annoying.

ya know sheik, I try to be civil with you but it seems your arrogance in believing you are smarter and more knowledgable than everyone especially believers is
nauseating in reality all you are is a scared little boy who needs to try and sow doubt in believers minds, so as to comfort or rationalize your belief. You're a bit of a bully and a bit or a pompous ass. The reality is with all your so called knowledge you truly know nothing in you're lonely little world

 

[Zlatan]

answer everything with yes he can obama style can he make the burrito yes he can, then guess what he can eat it too. As far as capacity and action on that capacity those are 2 different things: He can impede on free will but will he? As for why are we here, He is also the most just and him simply knowing and codemning people based on what he knows they will do is not as just as making you the witness to your own actions.

OK, so basically God doesnt want us to be mad at him for being unfair?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Ok, fine. He limited his own power in order to give us free will. But what is the point of free will? If the point is to see what we will do so to place us either in heaven or hell, then he could just as esily done that without life by his own knowledge of what we will do. Free will is not a purpose iin itself, its point is to judge us, which he can do already because he knows the outcome of our free will. Henfce, no point in the test called life.

Actually as deneb stated he doesn't judge us we end up judging ourselves by our lives and actions, but once again you do not understand and try to limit God with you're limited mind and understanding

 

[GordoDeCentral]

arguments about things you dont know? tsk tsk and here i thought you wanted to know and learn about our beliefs. So i guess your intention all along was just to push your burrito arguments, now that is disappointing.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

ya know sheik, I try to be civil with you but it seems your arrogance in believing you are smarter and more knowledgable than everyone especially believers is
nauseating in reality all you are is a scared little boy who needs to try and sow doubt in believers minds, so as to comfort or rationalize your belief. You're a bit of a bully and a bit or a pompous ass. The reality is with all your so called knowledge you truly know nothing in you're lonely little world

OK cool. Now back to topic. I just argued that your god is not omnipotent based on your claims. Refer to post 4609 and many others before it. Do you accept it, or do you refute it?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

arguments about things you dont know? tsk tsk and here i thought you wanted to know and learn about our beliefs. So i guess your intention all along was just to push your burrito arguments, now that is disappointing.

disappointing ? or just proving what we knew, neither Zlatan and especially sheik are actually searching nor curious, they just want to push their arguments at least Zlatan doesn't hide behind "i'm searching still" like sheik does. Sheik is a wolf in sheeps clothing to bad i'm a hunter

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

ya know sheik, I try to be civil with you but it seems your arrogance in believing you are smarter and more knowledgable than everyone especially believers is
nauseating in reality all you are is a scared little boy who needs to try and sow doubt in believers minds, so as to comfort or rationalize your belief. You're a bit of a bully and a bit or a pompous ass. The reality is with all your so called knowledge you truly know nothing in you're lonely little world

OK cool. Now back to topic. I just argued that your god is not omnipotent based on your claims. Refer to post 4609 and many others before it. Do you accept it, or do you refute it?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

OK, so basically God doesnt want us to be mad at him for being unfair?

he's making sure theres no chance of a hang jury