Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (34 Viewers)

Well, did...

  • Man make God?

  • God make Man?


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Apr 15, 2006
56,640
Read the edit. Hell is a choice it is the absence of God but let me tell you even you at your last breath will be called by God for repentance
I don't choose an eternity without god. He imposes it. God could've let me simply die and be like how I was before I was born: nonexistent. But NO!!! He had to create a soul and an afterlife, heaven, hell, and a cosmic system with rules that decides where I go after I die. And after all of this, you have the audacity to blame ME for choosing that path? Fuck you! That's despicable!

Even at my last breath, you say? Well in that case, I'll tell him to go fuck himself for making this so hard for everyone.
 

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AndreaCristiano

Nato, Vive, e muore Italiano
Jun 9, 2011
19,125
I don't choose an eternity without god. He imposes it. God could've let me simply die and be like how I was before I was born: nonexistent. But NO!!! He had to create a soul and an afterlife, heaven, hell, and a cosmic system with rules that decides where I go after I die. And after all of this, you have the audacity to blame ME for choosing that path? $#@! you! That's despicable!

Even at my last breath, you say? Well in that case, I'll tell him to go $#@! himself for making this so hard for everyone.
Why should he grant you that blessing when he's giving you a million chances and created you to love him and let him love you. Yet you choose that a life without him so he gives you what you want an eternity without him. Ps if you don't believe it doesn't matter huh ?
 

AndreaCristiano

Nato, Vive, e muore Italiano
Jun 9, 2011
19,125
The point is not free will: the point is that, regardless of your freedom to choose, he knows exactly the choice you will make. If he does not know exactly the choice you will make, then he is not omnipotent.
His will doesn't interfere with our free will ever he can't force us , he can't change our will nor can he impose his will. So our choice is our choice. He knows all the paths doesn't know which one we will choose until we choose it
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
His will doesn't interfere with our free will ever he can't force us , he can't change our will nor can he impose his will. So our choice is our choice. He knows all the paths doesn't know which one we will choose until we choose it
He can't? Then he's not omnipotent. Therefore, he's not god.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 19:57 ----------

Omnibenevolent lol What is that did you make that up? Once again you choose your path not God so your destination is your choice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibenevolence

It's one of the attributes of god.
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
His will doesn't interfere with our free will ever he can't force us , he can't change our will nor can he impose his will. So our choice is our choice. He knows all the paths doesn't know which one we will choose until we choose it
Then that would mean that God doesnt know the future. If he doesnt know what we will choose, he can not see the future. If he can not see the future, he is not omnipotent. And omnipotence is kinda important for a God and his religion.
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
Andrea, we can't disprove god with empirical evidence. But we've shown you that a being with the attributes of a god cannot exist(omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence). What more must we do to prove to you that god cannot exist?
 

AndreaCristiano

Nato, Vive, e muore Italiano
Jun 9, 2011
19,125
Andrea, we can't disprove god with empirical evidence. But we've shown you that a being with the attributes of a god cannot exist(omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence). What more must we do to prove to you that god cannot exist?
First off al those characteristics are all applicable except for when it comes to free will so you really didnt show me anything, I understand the nature of god an dhow it lives outside the laws that you think he has to live in , thats the difference
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
First off al those characteristics are all applicable except for when it comes to free will so you really didnt show me anything, I understand the nature of god an dhow it lives outside the laws that you think he has to live in , thats the difference

You didnt adress my question? Does God know the future or not?

If he does, he knows exactly what choice we would make (how we will excercize our free will), hence there is no nee to actually live, he could just put people in heaven or hell based on his knowledge what we would choose.

If he can not see the future, then he is not omnipotent and hence not a God in the sense of all the major religions?


So which one is it? And please dont come back with an answer that he exists outside our rules and outside our logic. That is basically admitting defeat and that you dont have a reasonable answer.
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
Ps I have stated it 1milliom times he doesn't condemn anyone
BTW, just wanted to pick on this point.

Psalm 14:1 ESV: To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.

Deuteronomy 7:3-4 ESV: You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly.

Revelation 21:8 (NIV): But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Deuteronomy 13:6-10
 
Apr 15, 2006
56,640
First off al those characteristics are all applicable except for when it comes to free will so you really didnt show me anything, I understand the nature of god and how it lives outside the laws that you think he has to live in , thats the difference
You just admitted that he cannot do certain things. But his attributes contradict with his abilities. Stop ignoring it!

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 20:31 ----------

these are really comical arguments
Which ones?
 

AndreaCristiano

Nato, Vive, e muore Italiano
Jun 9, 2011
19,125
You didnt adress my question? Does God know the future or not?

If he does, he knows exactly what choice we would make (how we will excercize our free will), hence there is no nee to actually live, he could just put people in heaven or hell based on his knowledge what we would choose.

If he can not see the future, then he is not omnipotent and hence not a God in the sense of all the major religions?


So which one is it? And please dont come back with an answer that he exists outside our rules and outside our logic. That is basically admitting defeat and that you dont have a reasonable answer.
God knows all possible outcomes he lives in the infinite now so he sees all possible futures
 

AndreaCristiano

Nato, Vive, e muore Italiano
Jun 9, 2011
19,125
Then we have no true free will.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 20:36 ----------



Thank you for your valuable inputs.
yes we do! Just because one sees all possible outcomes doesnt mean he affects or changes our will! why is it so hard for you to comprehend, you all speak of being so learned yet you can't grasp simple things
 

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