Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (18 Viewers)

[GordoDeCentral]

Answer my question first: why can't he simply ask us to have faith in what he's seen just like he asks us to have faith in him right now?

did you read my answer or are you just so blind and mechanical(doesnt it remind of a type of people) to understand?

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:19 ----------

keep up the good fight my brother, I am going out to dine with my lovely future wife. Be well and Godspeed

congrats, and this aint no fight for me trust me

 

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[Zlatan]

but you are assuming we didnt choose to be here in the first place, moreover where does that put someone like you?

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:10 ----------




Him being just is all about appeasing us? thats a stretch considering He created us

You are the one saying he is appeasing us by giving us evidence for being placed in heaven/hell. I didnt say that . I just pointed out the illogical nature of the argument where he wants to appease us one second, but doesnt the next.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

You are the one saying he is appeasing us by giving us evidence for being placed in heaven/hell. I didnt say that . I just pointed out the illogical nature of the argument where he wants to appease us one second, but doesnt the next.

show me where i said hes appeasing us. i pointed out repeatedly that it all stems from Him being all just. So dont start any other argument from a different starting point.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

did you read my answer or are you just so blind and mechanical(doesnt it remind of a type of people) to understand?

What answer? I only saw a question where you made an assumption and posed a question based on that. It seemed more like you were evading my question rather than answering it.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

What answer? I only saw a question where you made an assumption and posed a question based on that. It seemed more like you were evading my question rather than answering it.

whats the assumption i made?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

whats the assumption i made?

"but you are assuming we didnt choose to be here in the first place".

And you're STILL evading my question.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

"but you are assuming we didnt choose to be here in the first place".

And you're STILL evading my question.

play along for a second, so is my assumption correct?

 

[Zlatan]

show me where i said hes appeasing us. i pointed out repeatedly that it all stems from Him being all just. So dont start any other argument from a different starting point.

But this kind of showing his sense of justice (or justness) is only for appeasing us. He can be as just by using his omnipotence to know what we would do and place us in heaven/hell accordingly.


Actually living out life to prove it shows either one of two things: he does not know what we will choose (i.e he is not omnipotent); or, he wants to appease us by letting us see that we deserve heaven/hell. You said that it was the second.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 18:29 ----------

play along for a second, so is my assumption correct?

I dont get the assumption.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

play along for a second, so is my assumption correct?

Why? What does my choice have to do with what god can tell me to do?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

But this kind of showing his sense of justice (or justness) is only for appeasing us. He can be as just by using his omnipotence to know what we would do and place us in heaven/hell accordingly.


Actually living out life to prove it shows either one of two things: he does not know what we will choose (i.e he is not omnipotent); or, he wants to appease us by letting us see that we deserve heaven/hell. You said that it was the second.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 18:29 ----------



I dont get the assumption.

being just is not to appease, appeasing is out of weakness, justice stands firm on evidence. In that regard, God's justice extends to him showing more than enough signs both pertaining to his existence and to what's right. And how a person is judged is not available to any of us.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:34 ----------

Why? What does my choice have to do with what god can tell me to do?

so first it was ask you to do now it;s tell you to do? make up your mind, oh wait you cant choose right?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

so first it was ask you to do now it;s tell you to do? make up your mind, oh wait you cant choose right?

Whether it's asking or telling me, what does it have to do it? Get to the point, man!

 

[Zlatan]

being just is not to appease, appeasing is out of weakness, justice stands firm on evidence. In that regard, God's justice extends to him showing more than enough signs both pertaining to his existence and to what's right. And how a person is judged is not available to any of us.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:34 ----------



so first it was ask you to do now it;s tell you to do? make up your mind, oh wait you cant choose right?

Being just is about doing the right thing. He can do that without a trial as he knows the verdict already. If the trial is there to show us the evidence, then it is just done for appeasing us, not to achieve justice.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Whether it's asking or telling me, what does it have to do it? Get to the point, man!

makes a huge difference asking involves choise, telling doesnt and you;re the last person to ask anyone to make a point. If you think this is me being frustrating think again. Like i said, silly 12 yo games.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:46 ----------

Being just is about doing the right thing. He can do that without a trial as he knows the verdict already. If the trial is there to show us the evidence, then it is just done for appeasing us, not to achieve justice.

no being just is about doing the just thing. And in this case being the All just goes beyond the minimum, and into letting it unfold(which also dips into one of his other attributes mercy, not to be confused with appeasement).

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

makes a huge difference asking involves choise, telling doesnt and you;re the last person to ask anyone to make a point. If you think this is me being frustrating think again. Like i said, silly 12 yo games.

The only one who's playing silly games is you. I'm not the one who started answering a question with another question. You did.

Since we've totally strayed from the topic, I say it again: answer my question. Or don't bother answering at all.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

The only one who's playing silly games is you. I'm not the one who started answering a question with another question. You did.

Since we've totally strayed from the topic, I say it again: answer my question. Or don't bother answering at all.

well i say you answer my question to answer yours or dont bother answering at all

 

[Zlatan]

makes a huge difference asking involves choise, telling doesnt and you;re the last person to ask anyone to make a point. If you think this is me being frustrating think again. Like i said, silly 12 yo games.

---------- Post added 25.06.2012 at 11:46 ----------



no being just is about doing the just thing. And in this case being the All just goes beyond the minimum, and into letting it unfold(which also dips into one of his other attributes mercy, not to be confused with appeasement).

Doing the just thing is making the right judgement. All the other attributes can also be fulfilled without the need to play everything out.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Doing the just thing is making the right judgement. All the other attributes can also be fulfilled without the need to play everything out.

getting tired? good i gotta get lunch anyway

 

[Ford Prefect]

In other news - I need to go and take a pope

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

In other news - I need to go and take a pope

In the Vatican?

 

[Raz]

the whole can God make a burrito so hot he cant eat it

Seriously, this thread, it's like coming to a stand up show.