Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (24 Viewers)

[Martin]

No, ridiculous does not mean the person deserves ridicule, merely that the belief does. It's like the difference between doing a bad thing and being bad altogether. I take it you have no problem reproaching someone for a bad action they performed?

 

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[AndreaCristiano]

No, ridiculous does not mean the person deserves ridicule, merely that the belief does. It's like the difference between doing a bad thing and being bad altogether. I take it you have no problem reproaching someone for a bad action they performed?

ri·dic·u·lous/riˈdikyələs/
Adjective:
Deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.
Synonyms:
ludicrous - laughable - absurd - funny - comical

you were saying?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

what your doing isnt criticism Sheik. Proper critical thought doesnt include insults, and ridicule. Analyzing something is and actual discussion and look at the situation, not calling it ridiculous, and fantasy and the believers names., All your above premises are only how you see my beliefs while others understand what I am saying. You and the doubters never listen, we the believers do not call you or your beliefs names or jest about them. Look at Ze Tehir and I we had proper debate. You and your merry men just laugh and call people and there beliefs derogatory names, so no im not arrogant your just immature in your debate

Let's get one thing clear: when I say 'ridiculous' or 'non-sense', I don't use the words to insult, but to describe. I do analyse and criticise your beliefs. Read the last 10 pages, and I've done exactly so. I've heard you and Tahir complain about atheists being too rude to religious people like you. And I've tried my best show the faults in your reasons, I've tried my best to be polite and thoughtful in my criticisms, but I have my limit too. AND YOU NEVER LISTEN! You continue believing in what you believe as if our criticisms hold no value at all. Like you never listened to them.When you reject my valid criticisms and continue believing in what you do based on faith, that is an insult in itself to me.

I dont ridicule people for their beliefs two of my friends are wicca thats what they believe then that is what they believe who am Ito mock or judge

Who are you to judge? Don't you ever ask yourself why they believe in whatever they believe in? Aren't you ever curious to see whether their reasons are good enough for you to accept those beliefs too? And if you learn that their beliefs, or the basis of it, doesn't make sense, don't you point it out to them? Do you not care about the validity of different peoples' beliefs?

 

[Martin]

Next time just say "I don't understand" and I'll try to be clearer. Where in your copy/paste does it say anything about the target of ridicule?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

to summarize whatever the target is, proper discourse when talking and discussing be it religion, science, politics etc etc is to discuss the merits of both sides and listen intently. When I was discussing above and I stated multiple times that one can believe in a creator and evolution and even that science and religion are two sides of the same coin. I always was greeted with derision, ridicule and jest by the non believers. So that neither furthers intellectual discussion nor does it make me want to take them seriously.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

to summarize whatever the target is, proper discourse when talking and discussing be it religion, science, politics etc etc is to discuss the merits of both sides and listen intently. When I was discussing above and I stated multiple times that one can believe in a creator and evolution and even that science and religion are two sides of the same coin. I always was greeted with derision, ridicule and jest by the non believers. So that neither furthers intellectual discussion nor does it make me want to take them seriously.

Wrong! When you said religion and science are two sides of the same coin, this was my response:

If you wanna use such analogies, then I can say that both sides face opposite directions.

Religion demands belief in the absence of evidence, and worse, in the presence of evidence to the contrary. Science shows you the evidence for its claims. Religion is based on supernatural, whereas source is based on the natural. Science is unbiased in its methods, whereas religion is board towards its own agenda. Science is changing whereas religion is unchanging.

They are very incompatible.

A point that you very clearly ignored to respond to. And despite showing you why they are incompatible, you continue to state it. That's insulting.

And while we're at unanswered posts, might I point to you 3 criticisms from our discussions not even 3 days ago, that you failed to address:

Until you prove that it has divine origins, they will continue to have a natural origin. Natural explanations are ALWAYS more plausible than supernatural ones.

How do know that god set it in motion? Better yet, how do you know that YOUR god set it in motion and not, say, the Hindu god Brahma?

Ok. What about the Hindu creation myth? And the Chinese creation myth.

Our how about all the creation myths listed on Wikipedia?

The only one not taking intellectual discussions seriously is you. It's you who disregard our criticisms and continue believing in your fantasy world.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Wrong! When you said religion and science are two sides of the same coin, this was my response:



A point that you very clearly ignored to respond to. And despite showing you why they are incompatible, you continue to state it. That's insulting.

And while we're at unanswered posts, might I point to you 3 criticisms from our discussions not even 3 days ago, that you failed to address:





The only one not taking intellectual discussions seriously is you. It's you who disregard our criticisms and continue believing in your fantasy world.

i dont disregard your criticisms and neither do the 31 others on here who believe we just dont think you have explained away God at all not even remotely. Also you can sugar coat your bs all you want its obvious that you have disdain for people of faith

 

[Ford Prefect]

never ridiculous, no have I wanted to understand how they come to the belief and discuss it with them yes, but for me ridiculous implies stupidity so I dont mock and assume a person is stupid and they deserve ridicule hence ridiculous meaning that it is deserving of ridicule

So magic underpants aren't ridiculous? Praying at a wall isn't ridiculous? Believing we hold the spirits of dead aliens trappen on earth by an evil space lord isn't ridiculous? Making it illegal for women to drive isn't ridiculous? Making it illegal for women to be in a room with a man she isn't related to isn't ridiculous? Teaching children that we co-existed with dinosaurs isn't ridiculous? Advocating a no condom policy which is and has wreaked havoc in africa isn't ridiculous? Teaching people that when you die you come back to life and your reanimation depends on your behaviour in the life you lead isn't ridiculous? Treating cows as sacred animals and having festivals throwing paint around that are full of toxins and that have caused children to go blind isn't ridiculous? burning corpses on a river that people bathe in and wash their clothes in isn't ridiculous? Teaching that technology is evil and living sheltered lives away from the rest of humanity isn't insanity?

Think I covered all the bases of the Abrahamic and some of the heavily followed asian based religions and a bit of scientology for fun.

Are people who believe in ghosts/psychics/magic crystal skulls/homeopathy not ridiculous? All of this stuff needs to be challenged and asked to prove itself, if it can't then it deserved ridicule because its just lies and to believe a lie when so many people can challenge the lie and to start shouting that "they don't understand the scriptures" or "faith doesn't need evidence" is counterproductive and only goes to show the weakness of your arguments and ideologies.

"Isn't enough to see that the garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom?"

 

[AndreaCristiano]

So magic underpants aren't ridiculous? Praying at a wall isn't ridiculous? Believing we hold the spirits of dead aliens trappen on earth by an evil space lord isn't ridiculous? Making it illegal for women to drive isn't ridiculous? Making it illegal for women to be in a room with a man she isn't related to isn't ridiculous? Teaching children that we co-existed with dinosaurs isn't ridiculous? Advocating a no condom policy which is and has wreaked havoc in africa isn't ridiculous? Teaching people that when you die you come back to life and your reanimation depends on your behaviour in the life you lead isn't ridiculous? Treating cows as sacred animals and having festivals throwing paint around that are full of toxins and that have caused children to go blind isn't ridiculous? burning corpses on a river that people bathe in and wash their clothes in isn't ridiculous? Teaching that technology is evil and living sheltered lives away from the rest of humanity isn't insanity?

Think I covered all the bases of the Abrahamic and some of the heavily followed asian based religions and a bit of scientology for fun.

Are people who believe in ghosts/psychics/magic crystal skulls/homeopathy not ridiculous? All of this stuff needs to be challenged and asked to prove itself, if it can't then it deserved ridicule because its just lies and to believe a lie when so many people can challenge the lie and to start shouting that "they don't understand the scriptures" or "faith doesn't need evidence" is counterproductive and only goes to show the weakness of your arguments and ideologies.

"Isn't enough to see that the garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom?"

those are peoples beliefs they are no more ridiculous than a man having extra long hair and looking effeminate, or extra terrestrial life or believing in the mayan prophecy for 2012 or following zen teachings or believing
Inter are better than Juve etc etc just because you cant comprehend or accept peoples belief systems doesnt make you any wiser, nor less ridiculous

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

i dont disregard your criticisms and neither do the 31 others on here who believe we just dont think you have explained away God at all not even remotely. Also you can sugar coat your bs all you want its obvious that you have disdain for people of faith

You just ignored my criticism. For the second time!

I have disdain for faith, not people of faith.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

You just ignored my criticism. For the second time!

I have disdain for faith, not people of faith.

im starting to ignore you when it comes to this. In the end there are doctors, scientists, physicist astronauts, and infinitely smarter people than both of us that believe in God and if was up to you and jasper, they would be categorized as ignorant, weird fantasy believing loons

 

[Ford Prefect]

those are peoples beliefs they are no more ridiculous than a man having extra long hair and looking effeminate, or extra terrestrial life or believing in the mayan prophecy for 2012 or following zen teachings or believing
Inter are better than Juve etc etc just because you cant comprehend or accept peoples belief systems doesnt make you any wiser, nor less ridiculous

But they can't prove their beliefs, thats the point.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

But they can't prove their beliefs, thats the point.

neither can any of the ones above? ET's no proof, mayans prophecy no proof, zen no proof, inter better than Juve def no proof

 

[Kasaki]

I'm bout to sum up nearly 180 pages

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I'm bout to sum up nearly 180 pages

what did you take from that? I took that the boy with the green sweater walked away because neither of the other two understand God

 

[Kasaki]

You either love him or you don't, that simple. Both sides sound as crazy as the other to each other.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

neither can any of the ones above? ET's no proof, mayans prophecy no proof, zen no proof, inter better than Juve def no proof

But faith will make it all true, right?

 

[Fred]

So magic underpants aren't ridiculous? Praying at a wall isn't ridiculous? Believing we hold the spirits of dead aliens trappen on earth by an evil space lord isn't ridiculous? Making it illegal for women to drive isn't ridiculous? Making it illegal for women to be in a room with a man she isn't related to isn't ridiculous? Teaching children that we co-existed with dinosaurs isn't ridiculous? Advocating a no condom policy which is and has wreaked havoc in africa isn't ridiculous? Teaching people that when you die you come back to life and your reanimation depends on your behaviour in the life you lead isn't ridiculous? Treating cows as sacred animals and having festivals throwing paint around that are full of toxins and that have caused children to go blind isn't ridiculous? burning corpses on a river that people bathe in and wash their clothes in isn't ridiculous? Teaching that technology is evil and living sheltered lives away from the rest of humanity isn't insanity?

Think I covered all the bases of the Abrahamic and some of the heavily followed asian based religions and a bit of scientology for fun.

Are people who believe in ghosts/psychics/magic crystal skulls/homeopathy not ridiculous? All of this stuff needs to be challenged and asked to prove itself, if it can't then it deserved ridicule because its just lies and to believe a lie when so many people can challenge the lie and to start shouting that "they don't understand the scriptures" or "faith doesn't need evidence" is counterproductive and only goes to show the weakness of your arguments and ideologies.

"Isn't enough to see that the garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom?"

Which religion is that??

 

[ALC]

Which religion is that??

The religion itself states women aren't as good as men, that is just one way it's applied.

 

[Fred]

The religion itself states women aren't as good as men, that is just one way it's applied.

Really? How many Muslim Countries are there in the world? How many of them have laws that prohibit women from driving?

Also, do you really think muslims in general believe women should not be allowed to drive?

Thats why Ze Tahir said before, lots of you really don't know very much about the religions you talk about. There are so many practices in the Arab world that have everything to do with the culture, and nothing to do with religion. But you guys see one country applying a certain practice, and without further thought you automatically generalize it to the rest of us, and attribute it to our religion.