Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (44 Viewers)

[AndreaCristiano]

Really? How many Muslim Countries are there in the world? How many of them have laws that prohibit women from driving?

Also, do you really think muslims in general believe women should not be allowed to drive?

Thats why Ze Tahir said before, lots of you really don't know very much about the religions you talk about. There are so many practices in the Arab world that have everything to do with the culture, and nothing to do with religion. But you guys see one country applying a certain practice, and without further thought you automatically generalize it to the rest of us, and attribute it to our religion.

Fred that is how they look at religion. They automatically attribute things they don't understand to a faith of their choice. Just so they may justify their disdain for it

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[ALC]

Really? How many Muslim Countries are there in the world? How many of them have laws that prohibit women from driving?

Also, do you really think muslims in general believe women should not be allowed to drive?

Thats why Ze Tahir said before, lots of you really don't know very much about the religions you talk about. There are so many practices in the Arab world that have everything to do with the culture, and nothing to do with religion. But you guys see one country applying a certain practice, and without further thought you automatically generalize it to the rest of us, and attribute it to our religion.

Isn't Arab culture a result of religion though? It feels like you're just making connections to make it seem like religion is not what influences Arab culture. Why aren't women of different religions as shielded away from the world as Muslim ones?

 

[Fred]

Isn't Arab culture a result of religion though? It feels like you're just making connections to make it seem like religion is not what influences Arab culture. Why aren't women of different religions as shielded away from the world as Muslim ones?

Shows how very little you know about Arabs or their history. Culture is shaped by many factors, religion being one of them, that is something i am not denying. But Arabs were extremely protective about their women before Islam. I recommend that you read about Arab society before Islam and before the prophet Muhammad(PBUH).

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Really? How many Muslim Countries are there in the world? How many of them have laws that prohibit women from driving?

Also, do you really think muslims in general believe women should not be allowed to drive?

Thats why Ze Tahir said before, lots of you really don't know very much about the religions you talk about. There are so many practices in the Arab world that have everything to do with the culture, and nothing to do with religion. But you guys see one country applying a certain practice, and without further thought you automatically generalize it to the rest of us, and attribute it to our religion.

What reasoning is that, Fred? Regardless of whether it is one country or all of them, that rule is still applied. It still restricts a portion of women from driving. Something which does not make sense at all! If something like that happened in a non-Muslim country, do you still think women would conform to it? Absolutely not. This is absurd and ridiculous.

 

[Ford Prefect]

neither can any of the ones above? ET's no proof, mayans prophecy no proof, zen no proof, inter better than Juve def no proof

but we can test inter vs juve through numerous criteria (we know the result that would come out because Juve are one of the most succesful teams in european football), none of the others can be tested.

 

[Fred]

What reasoning is that, Fred? Regardless of whether it is one country or all of them, that rule is still applied. It still restricts a portion of women from driving. Something which does not make sense at all! If something like that happened in a non-Muslim country, do you still think women would conform to it? Absolutely not. This is absurd and ridiculous.

Of course it doesn't make sense. Thats why women in Saudi Arabia are driving cars as a form of protest and getting arrested for it, several cases of women driving cars in the city in the middle of the day as a form of protest over the past year.

and what kind of reasoning is it, to generalize a practice that happens in one country and one country only to a Billion muslims, the overwhelming majority of them whose sisters, mothers, wives, cousins or any other female relatives drive cars all the time.

As for pinning the blame on Islam for Arab society being a patriarchal one, well like i said to ALC, it shows a complete ignorance of Arab society, Arab society was so much more patriarchal before Islam(burying female infants, sons inheriting their fathers wives, etc). Its a cultural thing that has stuck with Arabs for a long time, especially those in the Arab peninsula.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Shows how very little you know about Arabs or their history. Culture is shaped by many factors, religion being one of them, that is something i am not denying. But Arabs were extremely protective about their women before Islam. I recommend that you read about Arab society before Islam and before the prophet Muhammad(PBUH).

Just curious: Why do Muslims always say "Peace be upon him" when they mention Muhammad? Why does he need Muslims to wish peace upon him?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Isn't Arab culture a result of religion though? It feels like you're just making connections to make it seem like religion is not what influences Arab culture. Why aren't women of different religions as shielded away from the world as Muslim ones?

Hasidic Jews treat their women as second rate citizens to the point to where a hasidic women may not talk to a man directly with her husband present she must talk through her husband. That's just one example from them and they live in USA which isn't like that. So your point about Arab culture is moot

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[AndreaCristiano]

What reasoning is that, Fred? Regardless of whether it is one country or all of them, that rule is still applied. It still restricts a portion of women from driving. Something which does not make sense at all! If something like that happened in a non-Muslim country, do you still think women would conform to it? Absolutely not. This is absurd and ridiculous.

I just gave an example of women who do in the US and that's just one so your statement is absurd

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

Of course it doesn't make sense. Thats why women in Saudi Arabia are driving cars as a form of protest and getting arrested for it, several cases of women driving cars in the city in the middle of the day as a form of protest over the past year.

Then what are you trying to refute?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

but we can test inter vs juve through numerous criteria (we know the result that would come out because Juve are one of the most succesful teams in european football), none of the others can be tested.

So hoe come when a scientist says he believes in ETs or ghosts that's acceptable but if a scientist believes in God atheists call him a quack?

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[Ford Prefect]

Really? How many Muslim Countries are there in the world? How many of them have laws that prohibit women from driving?

Also, do you really think muslims in general believe women should not be allowed to drive?

I know you know I am aware of this stuff but I want to be clear to everyone - I don't think that all muslims believe that stuff, its an example of how some people behave, restricted to some countries. Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran are the worst for it, but any discrimination based on sex which goes on in numerous other islamic states is not on and is never justifyable.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Just curious: Why do Muslims always say "Peace be upon him" when they mention Muhammad? Why does he need Muslims to wish peace upon him?

Good question. I never understood that either. Christians for example say the peace of the lord Jesus upon you. Or Gods peace be with you. Why would a prophet need your peace and not the other way around ?

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

I just gave an example of women who do in the US and that's just one so your statement is absurd

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No. That statement is invalid, not absurd. Saying that Jesus died, and got resurrected 3 days later, and the flew up to heaven is an absurd statement.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

No. That statement is invalid, not absurd. Saying that Jesus died, and got resurrected 3 days later, and the flew up to heaven is an absurd statement.

Its only absurd because your limited mind can't perceive it

 

[Zé Tahir]

What reasoning is that, Fred? Regardless of whether it is one country or all of them, that rule is still applied. It still restricts a portion of women from driving. Something which does not make sense at all! If something like that happened in a non-Muslim country, do you still think women would conform to it? Absolutely not. This is absurd and ridiculous.

It's not the act of driving that they're against, fyi. It's the fact if they could drive they'd have the freedom to move around.

Women weren't allowed to vote in several countries until about a 100 years ago. Including atheist Soviet Russia.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So hoe come when a scientist says he believes in ETs or ghosts that's acceptable but if a scientist believes in God atheists call him a quack?

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Well life is not restricted to earth. There are other planets that have life-favouring conditions. It's only rational to accept that we aren't the only life form in this universe. Thus a belief in possible existence of ET's is perfectly acceptable.

As for ghosts, I'm not sure who you are referring to.

 

[Fred]

Then what are you trying to refute?

I'm making the point, that Islam has nothing to do with women not being allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

I know you know I am aware of this stuff but I want to be clear to everyone - I don't think that all muslims believe that stuff, its an example of how some people behave, restricted to some countries. Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran are the worst for it, but any discrimination based on sex which goes on in numerous other islamic states is not on and is never justifyable.

on bolded part :wth:



I don't justify discrimination based on sex, but its not like western society is so advanced in that respect either. Women still do not get equal treatment in the workplace as men, women still get paid less on average than men do in Western countries.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

It's not the act of driving that they're against, fyi. It's the fact if they could drive they'd have the freedom to move around.

Women weren't allowed to vote in several countries until about a 100 years ago. Including atheist Soviet Russia.

but , but that cant be possible God and religion are the cause of all injustice not atheists

 

[Fred]

It's not the act of driving that they're against, fyi. It's the fact if they could drive they'd have the freedom to move around.

Women weren't allowed to vote in several countries until about a 100 years ago. Including atheist Soviet Russia.

Atheists are not held responsible for each others actions, but as soon as someone who has the same religion as us does something bad, we muslims all have to answer for it.