Do you believe in God? (4 Viewers)
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I really can't speak for my Christian brothers, however I think you have touched a very important difference between the two religions when it comes to organization and legislation.
Let me try my best to explain this to you my dear Seven. When it comes to Islamic legislation, Quran is not the only source for it. True, it is the most important and the most definitive. There are 3 more sources:
Hadeeth: Which is the collection of all the prophet's saying. I discussed this thoroughly with Erik before, however I will briefly explain it to you.
Hadeeth has arrived to us by narration. Meaning that for the first couple centuries it was not written down, but narrated down from the prophet up to writing them down (not sure when perhaps 300 years or so.) Anyways as you can see the danger in this technique, thats why guidelines were devised to preserve the authenticity of such sayings. The system has two parts, the hadith itself called "matn", and the lineage of narrators called "sanad". Its a very intricate system, the narrators are/were profiled on different criteria, such is he a good memorizier, is he a liar/ or ever lied, political agenda, did he ever meet the person he is narrating from...etc. Then comes the "matn", is it in accordance with Quran, and other Hadith or not. A hadith could arrive to us from one lineage or 10's of lineages, the more lineage the more trusted. All these factors mix in to create a very well devised rating system, I higher rated Hadeeth would negate a lower one if they conflict and so on.
For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isnad (the ratings are on the right.)
Qiyas: or literally measurement, i.e smoking was not explicitly forbidden, it wasn't even available back then. However scholars "measured" this with forbiding one killing himself or harming himself. Same can be said for weed, where it is forbidden and measured with "alcohol" in that it conceals ones mind...and so on.
Ijma'a: Islamic scholars agreeing unanimously on something is the also a source of legislation. One of the unanimously agreed on concepts is the 5 "hurumat". Or that its forbidden to trespressing on another person's (or yours), religion, life, money or any property, mind, "ird" which loosely translates to family but not quite
.
Anyways my point is that, whilst in Christianity all the power is put in the hands of someone in the Vatican (or at least to my understanding), it is not the case in Islam, nobody yields the power. When someone is wrong multiple other scholars, groups, factions...etc will disagree and make it heard. The terrorist bandits, were very much opposed even before 911, and the general consent of Muslim's that this group has gone astray.
I hope you find this insightful, and sorry if talked to much. L)
Let me try my best to explain this to you my dear Seven. When it comes to Islamic legislation, Quran is not the only source for it. True, it is the most important and the most definitive. There are 3 more sources:
Hadeeth: Which is the collection of all the prophet's saying. I discussed this thoroughly with Erik before, however I will briefly explain it to you.
Hadeeth has arrived to us by narration. Meaning that for the first couple centuries it was not written down, but narrated down from the prophet up to writing them down (not sure when perhaps 300 years or so.) Anyways as you can see the danger in this technique, thats why guidelines were devised to preserve the authenticity of such sayings. The system has two parts, the hadith itself called "matn", and the lineage of narrators called "sanad". Its a very intricate system, the narrators are/were profiled on different criteria, such is he a good memorizier, is he a liar/ or ever lied, political agenda, did he ever meet the person he is narrating from...etc. Then comes the "matn", is it in accordance with Quran, and other Hadith or not. A hadith could arrive to us from one lineage or 10's of lineages, the more lineage the more trusted. All these factors mix in to create a very well devised rating system, I higher rated Hadeeth would negate a lower one if they conflict and so on.
For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isnad (the ratings are on the right.)
Qiyas: or literally measurement, i.e smoking was not explicitly forbidden, it wasn't even available back then. However scholars "measured" this with forbiding one killing himself or harming himself. Same can be said for weed, where it is forbidden and measured with "alcohol" in that it conceals ones mind...and so on.
Ijma'a: Islamic scholars agreeing unanimously on something is the also a source of legislation. One of the unanimously agreed on concepts is the 5 "hurumat". Or that its forbidden to trespressing on another person's (or yours), religion, life, money or any property, mind, "ird" which loosely translates to family but not quite
.Anyways my point is that, whilst in Christianity all the power is put in the hands of someone in the Vatican (or at least to my understanding), it is not the case in Islam, nobody yields the power. When someone is wrong multiple other scholars, groups, factions...etc will disagree and make it heard. The terrorist bandits, were very much opposed even before 911, and the general consent of Muslim's that this group has gone astray.
I hope you find this insightful, and sorry if talked to much. L)
The well, lack of organisation in Islam has the benefit of opening new discussions IMO. Yet anyone can put on a hat and call himself an imam. Which is always dangerous.
@Snoop: I've read parts of the Bible and I agree, I think it condemns violence. Then again, the crusaders studied the Bible every day, so who am I to argue with them? When it comes to interpretation there's no definitive answer.
Psychiatrists study their science and swear to do their work the proper way, but some of them abuse their work and you know sometimes how dangerous they can be, so the science or the source teach them that? of course not.
Bible is a great book Seven, I am not telling you because I am a Christian, I am not actually, I am a non believer, but you can't say that that book is dangerous.. It's people are dangerous, not the book. Those fanatic retards who look to Atheists or Muslims in different way than to Christians those are the dangerous people who claim they follow the Bible, while Bible is against that. If you avoid the Believing part in Bible, and also "you will be punished" "you will burn in hell" parts, you will find it a good philosophical book.
And also not the likes of crusaders who abuse it, also today's priests, popes and all of them abuse the bible and the religion and they gain the power by that and use it on politics, yes the world is cold like that
Bible is a great book Seven, I am not telling you because I am a Christian, I am not actually, I am a non believer, but you can't say that that book is dangerous.. It's people are dangerous, not the book. Those fanatic retards who look to Atheists or Muslims in different way than to Christians those are the dangerous people who claim they follow the Bible, while Bible is against that. If you avoid the Believing part in Bible, and also "you will be punished" "you will burn in hell" parts, you will find it a good philosophical book.
And also not the likes of crusaders who abuse it, also today's priests, popes and all of them abuse the bible and the religion and they gain the power by that and use it on politics, yes the world is cold like that
I really can't speak for my Christian brothers, however I think you have touched a very important difference between the two religions when it comes to organization and legislation.
Let me try my best to explain this to you my dear Seven. When it comes to Islamic legislation, Quran is not the only source for it. True, it is the most important and the most definitive. There are 3 more sources:
Hadeeth: Which is the collection of all the prophet's saying. I discussed this thoroughly with Erik before, however I will briefly explain it to you.
Hadeeth has arrived to us by narration. Meaning that for the first couple centuries it was not written down, but narrated down from the prophet up to writing them down (not sure when perhaps 300 years or so.) Anyways as you can see the danger in this technique, thats why guidelines were devised to preserve the authenticity of such sayings. The system has two parts, the hadith itself called "matn", and the lineage of narrators called "sanad". Its a very intricate system, the narrators are/were profiled on different criteria, such is he a good memorizier, is he a liar/ or ever lied, political agenda, did he ever meet the person he is narrating from...etc. Then comes the "matn", is it in accordance with Quran, and other Hadith or not. A hadith could arrive to us from one lineage or 10's of lineages, the more lineage the more trusted. All these factors mix in to create a very well devised rating system, I higher rated Hadeeth would negate a lower one if they conflict and so on.
For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isnad (the ratings are on the right.)
Qiyas: or literally measurement, i.e smoking was not explicitly forbidden, it wasn't even available back then. However scholars "measured" this with forbiding one killing himself or harming himself. Same can be said for weed, where it is forbidden and measured with "alcohol" in that it conceals ones mind...and so on.
Ijma'a: Islamic scholars agreeing unanimously on something is the also a source of legislation. One of the unanimously agreed on concepts is the 5 "hurumat". Or that its forbidden to trespressing on another person's (or yours), religion, life, money or any property, mind, "ird" which loosely translates to family but not quite.
Anyways my point is that, whilst in Christianity all the power is put in the hands of someone in the Vatican (or at least to my understanding), it is not the case in Islam, nobody yields the power. When someone is wrong multiple other scholars, groups, factions...etc will disagree and make it heard. The terrorist bandits, were very much opposed even before 911, and the general consent of Muslim's that this group has gone astray.
I hope you find this insightful, and sorry if talked to much. L)
Let me try my best to explain this to you my dear Seven. When it comes to Islamic legislation, Quran is not the only source for it. True, it is the most important and the most definitive. There are 3 more sources:
Hadeeth: Which is the collection of all the prophet's saying. I discussed this thoroughly with Erik before, however I will briefly explain it to you.
Hadeeth has arrived to us by narration. Meaning that for the first couple centuries it was not written down, but narrated down from the prophet up to writing them down (not sure when perhaps 300 years or so.) Anyways as you can see the danger in this technique, thats why guidelines were devised to preserve the authenticity of such sayings. The system has two parts, the hadith itself called "matn", and the lineage of narrators called "sanad". Its a very intricate system, the narrators are/were profiled on different criteria, such is he a good memorizier, is he a liar/ or ever lied, political agenda, did he ever meet the person he is narrating from...etc. Then comes the "matn", is it in accordance with Quran, and other Hadith or not. A hadith could arrive to us from one lineage or 10's of lineages, the more lineage the more trusted. All these factors mix in to create a very well devised rating system, I higher rated Hadeeth would negate a lower one if they conflict and so on.
For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isnad (the ratings are on the right.)
Qiyas: or literally measurement, i.e smoking was not explicitly forbidden, it wasn't even available back then. However scholars "measured" this with forbiding one killing himself or harming himself. Same can be said for weed, where it is forbidden and measured with "alcohol" in that it conceals ones mind...and so on.
Ijma'a: Islamic scholars agreeing unanimously on something is the also a source of legislation. One of the unanimously agreed on concepts is the 5 "hurumat". Or that its forbidden to trespressing on another person's (or yours), religion, life, money or any property, mind, "ird" which loosely translates to family but not quite
.Anyways my point is that, whilst in Christianity all the power is put in the hands of someone in the Vatican (or at least to my understanding), it is not the case in Islam, nobody yields the power. When someone is wrong multiple other scholars, groups, factions...etc will disagree and make it heard. The terrorist bandits, were very much opposed even before 911, and the general consent of Muslim's that this group has gone astray.
I hope you find this insightful, and sorry if talked to much. L)
Me and Bbilan -> same person .
I'm banned so i can't reply with my other username. I'll be banned again in 5,4,3,2 .......
No, i don't believe in God
And are you saying God created the earth ?
Your intelligence won't allow you understand how evolution works and how it is a very slow tweaking through natural selection. We needed billions of years to get to this complex world.
But noooooo, it's something too complicated for you and the other theists to understand and you're taking the easy way out and calling it quits by saying “God did it.”
Shortcuts are cheating, buddy !
No, you don't know shit. And because you know nothing and you don't like knowing nothing, you're taking the easy way out of trying to understand the world.
You're saying : God did everything. Yeah right, god did everything you're not able to understand - this is not an explanation, this is a fairy tale you idiot.
You want to believe in god because you enjoy that feeling that someone is watching over you and that you have a purpose in life.
It’s really all jolly and things, but it’s teaching the wrong mentality and it's dangerous teaching, fuckface.
Uhhhhh, you're stupid, sorry. You're so stupid that you deserve to be beaten to death.
Ok, lets test God :
Hey God, buddy, if you really exist and if you’re really omnipotent you’ll make this Rico guy stop believing in you, at least for 1 week .
If you do that I promise you all of us atheists here will start believeing in you. You'll be givin us the ultimate proof of your existance
Now, lets ask Rico a question and see if God exists :
Rico, do you believe in God ?
Nice finding :thumbs:
Too bad some people are stupid to see we have a paradox here.
Yes, me
I'm banned so i can't reply with my other username. I'll be banned again in 5,4,3,2 .......
No, i don't believe in God
And are you saying God created the earth ?
Your intelligence won't allow you understand how evolution works and how it is a very slow tweaking through natural selection. We needed billions of years to get to this complex world.
But noooooo, it's something too complicated for you and the other theists to understand and you're taking the easy way out and calling it quits by saying “God did it.”
Shortcuts are cheating, buddy !
No, you don't know shit. And because you know nothing and you don't like knowing nothing, you're taking the easy way out of trying to understand the world.
You're saying : God did everything. Yeah right, god did everything you're not able to understand - this is not an explanation, this is a fairy tale you idiot.
You want to believe in god because you enjoy that feeling that someone is watching over you and that you have a purpose in life.
It’s really all jolly and things, but it’s teaching the wrong mentality and it's dangerous teaching, fuckface.
Uhhhhh, you're stupid, sorry. You're so stupid that you deserve to be beaten to death.
Ok, lets test God :
Hey God, buddy, if you really exist and if you’re really omnipotent you’ll make this Rico guy stop believing in you, at least for 1 week .
If you do that I promise you all of us atheists here will start believeing in you. You'll be givin us the ultimate proof of your existance
Now, lets ask Rico a question and see if God exists :
Rico, do you believe in God ?
Nice finding :thumbs:
Too bad some people are stupid to see we have a paradox here.
Yes, me
me and God are together noting you say will break it you have devil in you, it make me sad, you have fear iam so sorry
Of course not Imams or Sheiks are the ones who are eligible to legitimate what is right and what is wrong, what is halal and what is haram. As all the Muslims agree, there is one Islamic legislation which is definitely Al Qur'an and then comes Al Hadeeth.
Returning to what Rami said, Islamic scholars have a lot to offer these days, the life now is completely different from how it was 1400 years ago. The point here is: who are these Islamic scholars, where have they learnt Islam and its sciences and the most important is how many Muslims apply these legislations to themselves and their families?
Returning to what Rami said, Islamic scholars have a lot to offer these days, the life now is completely different from how it was 1400 years ago. The point here is: who are these Islamic scholars, where have they learnt Islam and its sciences and the most important is how many Muslims apply these legislations to themselves and their families?
I´m asking a moderator to create a poll with the simple question: Do you believe in God? The choice of answer is limited to either yes or no.
It would certainly be interesting. And it could create a good healthy debate as well.
It would certainly be interesting. And it could create a good healthy debate as well.
@ Seven: Please check out these youtube video's as they are related to our discussion in this thread. There are more but these are the ones related. Checkout the "True Warrior" story in the first video, very touching.
@Altair: I would be happy to discuss "ijtihad", I will mostly give you my opinion when my time permits.
@Altair: I would be happy to discuss "ijtihad", I will mostly give you my opinion when my time permits.
me and God are together noting you say will break it you have devil in you, it make me sad, you have fear iam so sorry
You have the basics and with a proper training you'll be ready to blow up a bus full of 10 years old children. All that in the name of god.
It's true.
Although, the main reason for them going East had nothing to do with religion and rescuing fellow Christians from invasion and persecution. Sure, the sheep went to fight for god but the curch, Godfrey, Baldwin, Boniface and the others went to fight for lands. Look at the fourth crusade and Dandolo's motives.
Controlling the Mediteranian, the Bosfor, Dardaneles, the Levant has always been the leading idea of the crusades.