Do you believe in God? (14 Viewers)

[Ahmedios]

i offered you the view of one such scholar of the koran, yet you did no such thing, but insulted my intelligence

I just expressed my viewpoint depending on what you said, that's all. Besides, I didn't disvalue your intelligence, you can consider what I said as an insult if you consider discussing you is an insult itself.

This was my post:

These two reasons aren't themselves convincing, simply, because they're inaccurate. Commenting on your two reasons:

1) First of all, you can't judge an entire book just after reading its introduction. By the way, the Qur'an has been explained by thousands of religious scientists since Prophet Muhammad's (s.a.w) era. Hence, even if you read it all, you won't comprehend more than 50% or less of the holy book.

2) How could you know that it was copied from the other religious books? Actually, you can say that only if you read the whole book besides being well versed in the other religious books.

 

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[Ascension]

Well, this topic has certainly shown the true color of us...

 

[Rami]

Bes, since science is the language you want to talk, I will happily oblige:

Dr. T. V. N. Persaud is Professor of Anatomy, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, and Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences at the University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. There, he was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy for 16 years. He is well-known in his field. He is the author or editor of 22 textbooks and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. When he was asked about the scientific miracles in the Quran which he has researched, he stated the following: “The way it was explained to me is that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read, didn’t know [how] to write. In fact, he was an illiterate. And we’re talking about twelve [actually about fourteen] hundred years ago. You have someone illiterate making profound pronouncements and statements and that are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. And I personally can’t see how this could be a mere chance. There are too many accuracies and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.”

Dr. William W. Hay is a well-known marine scientist. He is Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA. He was formerly the Dean of the Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science at the University of Miami, Miami, Florida, USA. After a discussion with Professor Hay about the Quran’s mention of recently discovered facts on seas, he said: “I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Quran, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages.” And when he was asked about the source of the Quran, he replied: “Well, I would think it must be the divine being.”

For more info: http://www.totse.com/en/religion/islam/whywebelieveth173569.html

I know that this coming from me (a Muslim) kind of detracts of its value, but trust me there a lot of scientific miracles in Quran that an illiterate man in the desert 1400 years ago could simply make up.

 

[Alucard Belmont]

Niels Bohr who developed the presently accepted model of the atom together with Ernest Rutherford says,

"For a parallel to the lesson of atomic theory...[we must turn] to those kinds of epistemological problems with which already thinkers like the Buddha and Lao Tzu have been confronted, when trying to harmonize our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence." 1958 Neils Bohr, Atomic Physics and Human Knowledge, (edited by John Wiley and Sons, 1958) p. 20.

The British mathematician, philosopher Alfred North Whitehead (co-author of Principia Mathematica -The Principia is widely considered by specialists in the subject to be one of the most important and seminal works in mathematical logic and philosophy.) declared,

"Buddhism is the most colossal example in the history of applied metaphysics."

Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
We find the doctrine of metempsychosis, springing from the earliest and noblest ages of the human race, always spread abroad in the earth as the belief of the great majority of mankind, nay, really as the teachings of all religions with the exception of that of the Jews and the two which have preceded from it: in the most subtle form, however, and coming nearest to the truth, as has already been mentioned, in Buddhism.
It almost seems that, as the oldest languages are the most perfect so also are the oldest religions. If I were to take the results of my philosophy as a yardstick of the truth, I would concede to Buddhism the pre-eminence of all religions of the world.

more in wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_science
if religion is popular enough, we can always found some relation between that religion with science.
if scientists waste their time trying to decrypt quran(which has a lot of scientific miracles ), I believe humanity haven't found a way to build a plane.

oh, beside science topic, let's discuss about the geography issue. why the words of god only whispered to people in middle east? which is then translated into torah, bible and then the Quran (original unmodified version as said by the prophet)?
If I'm to make conclusion I'll say that they're based on the same fable.

just to make reference on geography issue, Buddhism and Hinduism has lots of similiarity. no surprise here, they were founded in the same location.

 

[Alucard Belmont]

don't get me wrong, I do believe islam contribute a lot to science development, just like other major religions.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I think my mother is the sciece of fat stomachs on YOU!

 

[Rami]

more in wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_science
if religion is popular enough, we can always found some relation between that religion with science.
if scientists waste their time trying to decrypt quran(which has a lot of scientific miracles ), I believe humanity haven't found a way to build a plane.

oh, beside science topic, let's discuss about the geography issue. why the words of god only whispered to people in middle east? which is then translated into torah, bible and then the Quran (original unmodified version as said by the prophet)?
If I'm to make conclusion I'll say that they're based on the same fable.

just to make reference on geography issue, Buddhism and Hinduism has lots of similiarity. no surprise here, they were founded in the same location.

Nobody said that Quran decryption is the means of human technological advances. All these scientific facts were stated in the Quran not for that purpose, it was stated to prove a different point. For example the embryonic stages that a human being goes through in a mother's womb was mentioned in a context showing the glory of the whole process and that such process is a testement of the greatness of God. You make it sound like the Quran was like: listen up humans these are the stages so you can better understand yourselves and advance in medicine!

In any case I brought up the scientific miracles in the Quran, to say that a unlettered man couldn't have figured out scientific facts centuries before any organized scientific research.

And by no means was the scientific advances the Muslims brought to the world was done by "Quran decryption" as you would put it.

As for the geography issue, Islam in fact trancends geography. After all perhaps more than 80% of Muslims today are not Arabic. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and the world. Indonesia, Pakistan, India and China (among others) are not Arab, yet there 100 millions who are Muslim.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

the spread is due to the otoman empire

 

[swag]

Those Ottomans sure know how to make a fine spread, that's for sure. :lick:

 

[Zé Tahir]

the spread is due to the otoman empire

The ottoman empire has been gone for almost a century now, what's spreading Islam now? It is unarguably the fastest spreading religion in the world.

 

[Alucard Belmont]

Nobody said that Quran decryption is the means of human technological advances. All these scientific facts were stated in the Quran not for that purpose, it was stated to prove a different point. For example the embryonic stages that a human being goes through in a mother's womb was mentioned in a context showing the glory of the whole process and that such process is a testement of the greatness of God. You make it sound like the Quran was like: listen up humans these are the stages so you can better understand yourselves and advance in medicine!
In any case I brought up the scientific miracles in the Quran, to say that a unlettered man couldn't have figured out scientific facts centuries before any organized scientific research.

And by no means was the scientific advances the Muslims brought to the world was done by "Quran decryption" as you would put it.

"Quran decryption" contribute nothing to science,That's why I said if scientists waste time decrypting quran,instead of doing real research,we won't be as advanced as we are today.
What matter more is the emergence of lots of islamic scholars which contribute lots to modern science.

The embryonic stages stated before was very similiar to some idea from Greek thinkers. And back then Greek writings were widely spread in arab.
http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html

I do understand your points about a testement of the greatness of God, however things written in Quran regarding sciences are ambiguous.

As for the geography issue, Islam in fact trancends geography. After all perhaps more than 80% of Muslims today are not Arabic. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and the world. Indonesia, Pakistan, India and China (among others) are not Arab, yet there 100 millions who are Muslim.

That's not the point here, Spread of religions has been discussed in previous similiar thread.
My point about geography are why the messages send by god is different in every region. and on what basis Islamic claim they're the true religion.

 

[Zé Tahir]

"Quran decryption" contribute nothing to science,That's why I said if scientists waste time decrypting quran,instead of doing real research,we won't be as advanced as we are today.
What matter more is the emergence of lots of islamic scholars which contribute lots to modern science.

I don't think he meant that science should look to the Qur'an to advance, rather that inventions and events were mentioned in the Qur'an long before they happened.



That's not the point here, Spread of religions has been discussed in previous similiar thread.
My point about geography are why the messages send by god is different in every region. and on what basis Islamic claim they're the true religion.[/QUOTE]

According to us, all religions before Islam were a step towards Islam; Islam is the final and complete religion. Rather than I explain it, read the following:

Islam literally means Peace, surrender of one's Will; and to be in amity and concord. The significance of the name of Islam is the attainment of a life of perfect peace and eternal happiness through complete surrender to the Will of God. The Quran--the Holy Book of the Muslims--interprets it to be the religion who teachings are in consonance with human nature. Islam, as the Quran has stated (5:4), is the completion of the religion inaugurated by God in the beginning of the world, on His sending the Quran through the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him. As a child is taught his alphabet, so God taught religion to the world gradually and little by little, by sending His prophets at different times and to different peoples.

When the world reached the stage of understanding that it was ready for the final lesson, He sent the last and complete Book through the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him. This Book not only corrects errors which had found their way into various religions, but preaches the truths which have not been preached before, on account of special circumstances of the society or the early stage of its development. At the same time it gathers together in itself the truths which were contained in any Divine revelation granted to any people for the guidance of men (The Quran, 98:4). Lastly, it meets all the spiritual and moral requirements of an ever-advancing humanity.

This is Islam which is wrongly called Muhammadanism.

According to Islam, the object of man's life is its complete unfoldment. Islam does not support the idea that man is born in sin. It teaches that everyone has within himself the seed of perfect development and it rests solely with a person himself to make or mar his fortune.

Surely, WE have created man in the best make; (The Holy Quran 95:5)

The cardinal doctrine of Islam is the Unity of Godhead. There is none worthy of worship but the One and Only God, Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet. God is free from all defects, Holy and Transcendent. He is All Good, All Mercy and All Power. He has no partner. He neither begets nor is He begotten, because these are the traits of frail and weak humanity. Furthermore, Islam helps us to establish a permanent relationship with God and to realize Him during our earthly life as our Helper in all our affairs and undertakings. This Unity of God is the first and foremost pillar of Islam and every other belief hangs upon it.

Islam requires belief in all the prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Confucius and Zoroaster. We regard them all (and many more not mentioned here) as heavenly teachers born to reform and regenerate man and lead him to God. Adherents of some other religions may consider it an act of piety to use disrespectful words and heap abuse on the prophets of other religions, but if a Muslim were to show the slightest disrespect towards the founder of any faith, he does so at the cost of his own faith. He has to utter the respectful benediction Alaihis-Salam (peace be on him) after mentioning the name of every prophet. Thus Islam establishes peace between all religions.

Again, that's our view, no one needs to get all antsy about it. Not talking to you Alucard, you've been very respectful :thumbs: (Besides, Rami will have a thing or two to say about the last paragraph )

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

The ottoman empire has been gone for almost a century now, what's spreading Islam now? It is unarguably the fastest spreading religion in the world.

buddy, albania was all christian orthodox, once the ottomans were there they made it clear that it would benefit the albanians to be muslism and now 75% of the population is muslim

 

[Zé Tahir]

Read my post again Bes. I asked what's spreading Islam today, I didn't say anything about the past.

 

[Alucard Belmont]

According to us, all religions before Islam were a step towards Islam; Islam is the final and complete religion. Rather than I explain it, read the following:

now, that's where deadlock of such discussion occurs. I've read those idea before, and I believe those idea derived from quran. The problems for most of non believers are we're not sure if content of quran is true. while the believers cannot provide satisfying answer regarding that point.

It's almost the same argument with how christians always say believe first and you will see.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Read my post again Bes. I asked what's spreading Islam today, I didn't say anything about the past.

i think they break even, you know once you factor in the suicides

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Those Ottomans sure know how to make a fine spread, that's for sure. :lick:

next time you re in town check out turquoise on roscoe

 

[GordoDeCentral]

i think they break even, you know once you factor in the suicides

suicide bombers spread islam?

 

[Zé Tahir]

now, that's where deadlock of such discussion occurs. I've read those idea before, and I believe those idea derived from quran. The problems for most of non believers are we're not sure if content of quran is true. while the believers cannot provide satisfying answer regarding that point.

Religion will always be religion and it will always involve in the belief in the unseen. I truly believe that if someone was honestly interested in finding the truth than he will be shown the right way. The problem is that people base their knowledge on grade school education. They think what ever they've learned from there class in 6th grade is what that religions is all about, or they wait until the 6 o'clock news to be enlightened. Very few actually venture into finding what a religions is actually about.

It's almost the same argument with how christians always say believe first and you will see.

"Blind faith" is discouraged in Islam.

i think they break even, you know once you factor in the suicides

Glad we had this mature conversation.

int:

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

it takes too long to open a new thread in a new forum

funniest shit ever

http://youtube.com/watch?v=veLZEmJc00E