Del Piero: a hero or a choker? (1 Viewer)

Signor · Sep 15, 2003

Yeah and Nesta is the sexiest Player in Italy :howler:

Ahmed_ · Sep 15, 2003

It don't care if he is sexy or not, because he is the best player in italy. DP And Totti are on the top of the world now

Dragon · Sep 15, 2003

he actually is top five, its pretty obvious youre a guy and dont know anything about this subject

Signor · Sep 15, 2003

yeah, I am a guy, why should i care for that stuff

mate · Sep 17, 2003

The fact that I am not a crazy "Delpierino" like you do not mean I hate the guy.

Yes when he signed the contract, Juventus could sell him if they wanted to, but at the moment he was considered so promising so they made him sign that contract; the point is that is sure that if they could know how down he was up to go they probably wuould not behive the same.
He was very lucky with the tempistic.

If you want to belive that Del Piero is a loved player here in Italy no problem, but the truth is that after WC 98 he is one of the most negatives, and it have to be said that he didn't do anything to recover the situation in EURO 2000... remember that no-Juve fans care about this not about the goals he does in the Bianconeri schirt. And also as you probaly know he has so many doping-voice around him (and in this period he is also always in and out court btw) that he also became the symbol of dirty-soccer.
I'm not saying that this is a right thing, but it just the way it is: he really do not have a good image in Italy. Than of course he is Juventus capitain and so he has a lot of fans but also into the Juventuni not everybody go crazy 4 him like you, as you also can see in this forum.

Did I say DP committed some crime?

He was a disgrace 4 the NT, but I will never stop to say that the crime is not his own (I guess he didn't do it in porpouse) but is of the coachs who decided to play him in the wrong moments.

He is not overrated now (apart from his fans), he was overrated at the beginning of his careear, and that is the reason why also if ACTUALLY HE DID GOOD THINGS there is so mutch disappointment around him... peaple expected from him things he will never can do.

IMO he is not a hero, cause never he did something amazing like "saving his team" especially in the top moments or who knows... something to be remebered 4 ever... but also he is not a chocker cause he did his best, is just that there was too mutch expectation from him.
He has his "up and down" but overall he is a good soccer player, that's it.

gray · Sep 17, 2003

Good question, I'd call him a choking hero... a heroic choker would be Zalayeta against Barca... DP's a hero but he just isn't consistent enough...

mate · Sep 17, 2003

But hero 4 what?

Why he has to be a hero or a chocker or even both of them?

gray · Sep 17, 2003

Because he's a great player for us when he's playing well = hero
But that doesn't happen as often as it should, or as often as we'd like it to = choker

mate · Sep 17, 2003

Personaly I consider hero just who does something very "dramatic" like "take the breath away" and choker who is a hopeless disapponitment, so in DP case both the definitions are exagerate, he is none of them.. he is a good player with his "up and down" that's it.

But actually those trades about DP and Treze are very funny... everybody has so many different opinions about them

gray · Sep 17, 2003

And you think DP doesn't do dramatic things and take the breath away? (when he's in form)...

Someone who's a hopeless disappointment, I'd call a hopeless disappointment. I would call someone a choker if they're good, but severely underperform e.g. Arsenal in the CL... honestly, guys, they can do better than that...

mate · Sep 17, 2003

No cause he actually play good when the team is performing so he was never the "saviour" or "the miracle man" or something like this...

Nedeved is more a hero or sometimes we even had some "last minute" unexpected heroes like Zala but DP is mostly playing good when the team play good and disapear when the team is in difficoulties.

Ok so DP was a choker in the NT and in some occasion also in Juve, but last years (I'm not speaking about 99/00/1 weare yes, he sucked) I think he did his job, IMO are peaple who expect too mutch from him, not him who underperform.

gray · Sep 17, 2003

By definition, choking is all relative to people's expectations in the first place...

he promised so much, and people came to expect so much of him, but so many times he hasn't lived up to those expectations... hence the term... it's a harsh world, I know...

denco · Sep 17, 2003

I would be very grateful if you give me the names of the players you regard as heroes and please do not mention Baggio as he won very little as a player for all his teams
Fiorentina ----no trophies
Juventus ---1 league (but he did not really contribute that much as he was injured most of it) 1 Uefa
Milan --- 1 scudetto (again he was mainly on the bench)
Bologna ----no trophies
Italy----nothing
Inter --- no trophies
Brescia -----still waiting

The idea of a hero is that you should actually win something and not just individual awards, the likes of Jordan Michael, Pele, Maradona, Sampras, Beckenbauer, Schumacher, Van Basten, Cruyff, were brilliant individually but what made them heroes is that they are winners

Also I am very interested in what you mean by Dp is better known in Italy as a dope cheat always in and out of courts as I have never heard he was a regular court goer, though I know Juventus are still been tried for alleged doping

From what you have just said it should be implied that Juve do not have any heroes or the Nedved is kind of a hero while Zala tooo should be called a hero cos he scored in cl 1/4

But Dp only plays good when the whole team plays good according to you and when the team is in difficulties he plays badly

Could it be that it means that when Dp plays good , Juventus also play good or is that just being too simplistic?

But to suggest that he is just an ordinary player for Juventus is ridiculous as he is obviously way better than that

mate · Sep 17, 2003

O my god! Aren't you sick about speacking of Baggio? This trade isn't about him, if you really can't stand him, why you can't avoid to speack always about him?
Anycase he is the best esample of a hero. In Italy he is the only one who is "everybody hero". Every country has 1 or maximum 2... and that what I intend of "soccer hero": a player so special that do something who will be remembered 4 ever and become a "country simble".
Than there are some "teams hero" like Totti 4 Roma but isn't the same thing.
In Juve at the moment is difficolt to say who can be considered the "team hero" 4 me Nedved or Buffon cause IMO they really make the difference 4 you we all know is Del Piero and 4 somebody else Davids... but we do not have a single player like 4 example in Roma.
Anycase are mostly fans who decide who is a hero and who is not. Ronaldo (to do an example) won everything, but while, during the Real Centenary, he lifted the Golden Ball (the most important award 4 a soccer player) Barnabeu fans weare screaming "Raul Raul". So even if with no dubt he is a Brazil hero he is not a Real hero. I don't know if you get what I mean...

The doping question is out of topic (if you want to talk longly of it open a new trade)... unfortunately I know that at the moment all Juve players and staff are going in and out of court but the only one (who is still in Juve) who have been processed is Del Piero, all the others went as "teste". Not Juve fans even call Del Piero Do-Piero but isn't difficolt to understand that is cause they dislike him and they are just happy to have a new way to insult him. I'm sure that most Juve fans will do the same with Totti or Inzaghi.

4 some reason you want to deny that outside the Juventini Del Piero is disliked... why? It's normal... didn't this forums had an "Anti Totti" trade and don't you see that most of the users find any excuse to insult Inzaghi.
Rivality beetwin teams is strong in Italy and apart from Baggio and a little bit from Maldini no players has support outside the fans of his teams.
Del Piero maybe got more dislikment cause with WC 98 and Euro 2000 he gave some more excuse to be disliked but is kinda the same 4 everybody.

Del Piero depend a lot on how his teammates are performing, he is not a kind of player who can change the match, he is not the most important player in Juventus. If you think that instead he can "win matches alone" well good 4 you but do not get pissed if a -not crazy Delpierino- has a different opinion.

denco · Sep 17, 2003

I am not pissed off, I only wanted to hear your views and the only reason I mentioned Baggio is because thats the only person you think he is not a hero

You are way too emotional, when you argue your case, I know its an Italian trait to be emotional but please calm down

Was Baggio Loved while he was a Juve player? I very much doubt it, but he is liked now universally because he is coming to the end of his career

I only asked about the court case as i know very little about it, so dont get too excited about that either

I can stand Baggio and have lots of videos on him so forget about all that you always talk about

AimarForJuve · Sep 18, 2003

Lets take out non-soccer content here. MJ, Sampras, Schumacher clearly plays in different side.

Ill start with Maradona. Apart from winning World Cup in 86, his club did not win as much as Del Piero in Juve. But everyone would agree Maradona thousand times better then him.

Cruff nvr won world cup. Trophy collection not as much as DP in Juve i think

Remember George Weah? How many trophy did he actually won? I bet not even half DP has. But everyone agree he was a world class players. Same case on Batistuta, Rui Costa.

There are a lot of way to define world class players. For me, I would have to say a world class players is a players who can make different to the team even if their teammate are below average. Someone who can do exceptional things to change the match outcome. IMO, DP does not come close under this category. So far only a few I regards as world class players. Maradona, Zidane, Figo, van Basten, Ballack, Hagi, Stoichkov, Nedved and a few more which perhaps have a little less quality then these guys. I left out Pele, Cruff, Rickenbauer(spelling?) because I wasnt born at the time this guy playing.

In other side DP is not a bad player either. He is still above average. He is terrific when he is onform. If he can be at least 50% onform maybe ill rate him as world class player

Hydde · Sep 18, 2003

well maradona destroyed at boca,,,and in Napoli did a very good job.

denco · Sep 18, 2003

Well you make a few good points but left out the obvious, we are not talking about world class but heroes and to tackle what you have said, you put Stoichkov, Rui Costa, Hagi as world class but you think Dp is not, well I don't agree with you as lets start with Stoichkov, i actually believe he was world class but what did he do at Parma, many actually believe his arrival at Parma was the elemnt which destroyed them as a scudetto challenger, Rui Costa has been a very big fish in small water but has done liuttle when he is has been put inbig waters, i mean he has been excellent at Fiorentina but way to inconsistent at Milan, while Hagi apart from at Galatasaray was hopeless at club level maybe save for Steaua Bucharest, now how do you know what Dp would have been like in the Spanish league where the marking aint so great or at a smaller serie a club where the pressures of success are not so great.

All the players you mentioned are world class and I include Dp in that category but we are talking about heroes not world class players

George weah won the scudetto won the league at Milan where his input was maximum not just as a squad member and he won cups in Psg so what do u mean what did Weah win?

To be regarded as great you have to have won something and played a huge part in your club winning it not just play a few good games here and there and people would call you world class

Maradona won 2 scudettos in a relatively small club like Napoli and UEFA, the world cup with a not so good Argentina team, Spanish cup with Barcelona and some Argentine titles so I don't know what you are on about

Its not like I am saying because you have won 20 titles it means you are the best

baggio · Sep 19, 2003

Ok, there are some really interesting views here. But frankly this topic wont really break away from one fact. Love him or hate him, Dp does have a certain effect on Juve. And it would be difficult for Juve to be that same intimidating force without him. Its not that we cant do without him, its just that we're too used to him being there.
But in all honesty, DP indeed is a choker. There is no doubt abt that. There is no question about his talent. Pure brilliance, however, it only comes to the fore when the going is good. But if things get a little jittery so does his game. It all begins to fall apart. There are many players who are like that, and Dp is no different. He has the talent, most players dream off, but his temperament lacks that of a match winner (e.g Zidane, Rolnaldo). And there have been far too many instances to prove that. Dp has always been a dissapointment on the big stage. Whether it involves his national team or his club. But having said that, I dont think anyone can match him in terms of consistency. To slog 30 odd matches year in and year out and come away as one of the top scorers, requires some skill. So in the end, I'd just conclude by saying, yes, Dp is a choker, but in his own way a hero too for all the consistency he brings to his team. I'd rather have him in my team than not. He should retain the captaincy at Juve as he is a symbol of our consistency all year ard. But he shdnt be made the captain of Italy, because he doesnt have the temparement like a Maldini or a Baggio or to handle tht amt of responsibility which requires more than just skill.

aressandro10 · Sep 19, 2003

++ [ originally posted by baggio ] ++
Ok, there are some really interesting views here. But frankly this topic wont really break away from one fact. Love him or hate him, Dp does have a certain effect on Juve. And it would be difficult for Juve to be that same intimidating force without him. Its not that we cant do without him, its just that we're too used to him being there.
But in all honesty, DP indeed is a choker. There is no doubt abt that. There is no question about his talent. Pure brilliance, however, it only comes to the fore when the going is good. But if things get a little jittery so does his game. It all begins to fall apart. There are many players who are like that, and Dp is no different. He has the talent, most players dream off, but his temperament lacks that of a match winner (e.g Zidane, Rolnaldo). And there have been far too many instances to prove that. Dp has always been a dissapointment on the big stage. Whether it involves his national team or his club. But having said that, I dont think anyone can match him in terms of consistency. To slog 30 odd matches year in and year out and come away as one of the top scorers, requires some skill. So in the end, I'd just conclude by saying, yes, Dp is a choker, but in his own way a hero too for all the consistency he brings to his team. I'd rather have him in my team than not. He should retain the captaincy at Juve as he is a symbol of our consistency all year ard. But he shdnt be made the captain of Italy, because he doesnt have the temparement like a Maldini or a Baggio or to handle tht amt of responsibility which requires more than just skill.

i love the way you put it. but del piero is anything but consistent. in one match he make all us del piero fans proud to say ' i told you so..' to others but in another day we have to dig deep to back him up...

Del Piero: a hero or a choker? (1 Viewer)

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