Defensive problem!! (4 Viewers)

[cimenk]

After last night saw Brazil - Italy match.. Chiellini - Cannavaro plus if Secco buy Dossena is absolutely terrible. If this become our defense next season, i'm not very optimistic for next season about scudetto and CL. except we buy another LB than Dossena, back up plan for CB like Santacroce or Ariaudo turns out to be good. also a RB

 

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[Max]

Get Diarra. He'll fix everything.

 

[Paolo Sosa]

actually the main problem in Italy game today wasn't the defencem the defence didn't have any sort of protection from the MF. just look how awful De Rossi and Montolivo was today to know that the pressure was all on the defence. Melo had eaten them alive and this is a fact.
Canna is not the "wall" he used to be and he need some cover from the MF, same goes to Chiellini. Zambrotta and Dossena were playing against them too so even the flanks were exposed for crosses with Robinho and Maicon there to take advantage.

if we are going to play 4-3-1-2 this will not be a problem for ou team IMO with Sissoko and Marchisio and Poulsen or Dago i expect to completly dominate the MF

 

[Buck Fuddy]

We probably shouldn't read too much into last night's game.

Sure Chiellini & Canna didn't look great, but they were on their own the entire game.
Dossena must have thought he played as a left midfielder, he surely didn't defend.
Zambrotta was doing everything humanly possible to make a fool out of himself. As a result he had no time to actually defend.
Both De Rossi & Montolivo were pretty much helping out the opponent and doing nothing to help the defence.

Playing with a 2-men defence against Brazil is always going to make you look bad.

 

[sebastian]

actually the main problem in Italy game today wasn't the defencem the defence didn't have any sort of protection from the MF. just look how awful De Rossi and Montolivo was today to know that the pressure was all on the defence. Melo had eaten them alive and this is a fact.
Canna is not the "wall" he used to be and he need some cover from the MF, same goes to Chiellini. Zambrotta and Dossena were playing against them too so even the flanks were exposed for crosses with Robinho and Maicon there to take advantage.
if we are going to play 4-3-1-2 this will not be a problem for ou team IMO with Sissoko and Marchisio and Poulsen or Dago i expect to completly dominate the MF

i agree if the midfield yesterday did there job it wouldn't be so humilating for italy. why did lippi kept montolivo in? he should have been the first to be replaced, next was toni with dossena

 

[Bianconero81]

Dossena, Toni, and Zambrotta are just a few players that should not be called up for the Azzurri anymore. I wanna see Marchisio, Giovinco, D'Agostino, and Balotelli for the World Cup in 2010.

 

[Nenz]

one bad game and we think that we're in a defensive crisis. I'll be honest. I'm not happy we will still have Legro next season as a starter but Chiellini is still a great center back he just had a shit game. Its imperative that we sign a RB though and get Criscito or someone as good otherwise we will still leak goals.

Let's not panic yet.

 

[Cronios]

You mean, two bad seasons!!
We have been in defensive crisis since the Boumsong days,
no matter if this issue has been momentarily masked or not, by the extra defensive coverage of the midfield and a lucky use of the offside trap.

The fact remains that the individual quality of our defenders and their potential was not worthy of the Juventus jersey and heritage...

IT is about time to realize that and do smth about it!!

 

[Buck Fuddy]

You mean, two bad seasons!!

Really? I must have been sleeping through these past 2 seasons.

07/08: 3rd place finish
37 goals conceded, 2nd best in the league together with Roma. Better than Milan, Fiorentina, ...

08/09: 2nd place finish
37 goals conceded, 3rd best in the league.


I do understand we could (and maybe should) do better but saying we have been in a defensive crisis is just ignorant imo.

 

[Nenz]

I don't completely agree. Crisis is a very strong word. I think if we get ourselves a good LB and RB we will have a relatively strong defense although depth will still remain a problem. In regards to our CBs. Chiellini is still very good, I don't care how badly he played. Legro isn't nearly as good as Chiellini but he still is a solid player and I think if Canna can play well for at least 30 minutes that will be an ok sub but he shouldn't play for more then 30 minutes he'll have a stroke. PLUS with Sissoko back he will undoubtedly ease pressure off our defense.

I'm not denying that there is a problem, especially regarding depth even if we sign a good LB and RB (Molinaro and Grygera aren't the best backups). But, unless we somehow forget to sign a RB and get Criscito back we are not in a defensive crisis.

 

[icemaη]

Last season we had a pretty solid defensive record until the team started the 7 game slump... we are not in a crisis, we don't have a WC defense but a good one... if we get two good fullbacks we'll have a very very good defence...

 

[Cronios]

Really? I must have been sleeping through these past 2 seasons.

07/08: 3rd place finish
37 goals conceded, 2nd best in the league together with Roma. Better than Milan, Fiorentina, ...

08/09: 2nd place finish
37 goals conceded, 3rd best in the league.


I do understand we could (and maybe should) do better but saying we have been in a defensive crisis is just ignorant imo.

This argument is old and over-abused.
If you have actually seen the last two of our season, you would know better.
The numbers goals conceded is not the only criterion of the individual quality of our defense, i ve explained it extensively in the past, in huge posts, i m sorry you missed them, but i did take some time to drop some hints in the very post you quoted...

I dont blame you, though, these hints work fine as guides to the ones who are familiar with my argumentation, but not quite everybody.
The defensive we have been facing has many symptoms and implications (even creativity, when we were forced to sacrifice our offensive option for more defensive coverage from our midfield, in order to support our pathetic defense) and is held responsible for the majority of our issues. It has been proved time and time again, in many cases. (like when Sissoko and Chiellini werent available to mask it)




See Jack, thats why i have to repeat my self many times, in order to give the chance to all of the members to understand the integrity of my arguments and perspective! Repeating those arguments can be boring for you, i understand it,
but it is essential for some other forum members!

 

[Buck Fuddy]

This argument is old and over-abused.
If you have actually seen the last two of our season, you would know better.
The numbers goals conceded is not the only criterion of the individual quality of our defense, i ve explained it extensively in the past, in huge posts, i m sorry you missed them, but i did take some time to drop some hints in the very post you quoted...

I dont blame you, though, these hints work fine as guides to the ones who are familiar with my argumentation, but not quite everybody.
The defensive we have been facing has many symptoms and implications (even creativity, when we were forced to sacrifice our offensive option for more defensive coverage from our midfield, in order to support our pathetic defense) and is held responsible for the majority of our issues. It has been proved time and time again, in many cases. (like when Sissoko and Chiellini werent available to mask it)

Cron, it might surprise you but I have actually done a lot of reading on this forum, including your posts.
Last season I missed 4 games (both Napoli games, Fiorentina home and the 4-0 against Reggina). Same goes for the previous season, so I think I know what I'm talking about. You and I just seem to have a (very) different opinion.

I couldn't care less about the individual quality of the players in our defense. More important is how they work as a unit. Take Roma for instance, individually Juan & Mexes are probably better defenders than Chiellini & Legro, yet I truly believe our partnership is (was?) better.

It's quite obvious we're in deep shit when the defensive coverage from our midfield is missing, no arguments here.
Then again, can you name 1 single (top) team that plays without defensive coverage in the mid to help the D?

And now, to really piss you off: Molinaro is one of the top 3 LB's in Serie A

 

[zizoufan]

Well, molinaro is not creative at all but he is surely a hardworking defender.

 

[Azzurri7]

I'm sticking with Legro-Chiellini partnership. They have better understanding, they got used to each others and Legro has been better than Cannavaro in the last 1year+.

I still feel terrible that we had sell Mellberg for unknown/clear reasons.

 

[RAMI-N]

I'm sticking with Legro-Chiellini partnership. They have better understanding, they got used to each others and Legro has been better than Cannavaro in the last 1year+.

I still feel terrible that we had sell Mellberg for unknown/clear reasons.

We made net profit

 

[ZAF3000]

Really? I must have been sleeping through these past 2 seasons.

07/08: 3rd place finish
37 goals conceded, 2nd best in the league together with Roma. Better than Milan, Fiorentina, ...

08/09: 2nd place finish
37 goals conceded, 3rd best in the league.


I do understand we could (and maybe should) do better but saying we have been in a defensive crisis is just ignorant imo.

In my opinion its not the back four problem. We started to concede goals crazy once Sissoko got injured. He was our first line of defense. Things went south afterwards when marchisio got a knock and did not play. We were left with two of Poulson/Tiago/Zanetti.
Now Zanetti is a great player but he has just returned from an injury so he did not return to his full performance. Tiago and Poulson are worthless whether offensively or defensively. Each managed to do one good thing during thier respective Juventus career. Tiago by clearing the Inter ball from the line and Poulson scoring that late goal.

In the confederation cup Italy had the same problem as Juventus. THe defense was not bad. Not super, but they were ok. The midfield on the other hand was an awful waste of space. They were not defending nor attacking. They did not create chances and did not block the opponent from reaching the box.
Brazil's defenders are weak. Egypt managed to score 3 against them. But their midfield is well organized.
Look at Spain, it is difficult to get pass their midfield.

Take a look at Italy's midfielders:
Pirlo: poor defensively (he is supposed to be the creative one, but never showed up).
Camoranesi: The attacking midfielder. He is not goo defensively but for me at least he was trying up front to do something.
De Rossi: He is good defensively but was out of position and off form.
Motilivo: Whoo??
Pepe: Come on???
Rossi: Was ok offensively in the USA match. thats it.
Quagierella: Poor poor performance.

========

I might have gotten off topic slightly, I just wanted to prove a point.

Getting Cannavaro was a good move. He is for free and he is good (might not be top notch at the moment, but never the less good).
We should definitely sell both Tiago and Poulson. Buy two full backs (right and left) and then get a sub central/defensive midfielder. So if Sissoko/marchisio are injured or suspended we still can maintain our midfield to a certain extent. Hence hold our grounds at the back.

 

[ZAF3000]

I'm sticking with Legro-Chiellini partnership. They have better understanding, they got used to each others and Legro has been better than Cannavaro in the last 1year+.

I still feel terrible that we had sell Mellberg for unknown/clear reasons.

So is it official that we sold Melberg?

 

[Hydde]

I also think that both in italy and juve...the defence is not the only prob. Inboth teams... the midfield is non existant right now.... and the defence suffers so much form it.

Cuntie and chiellini were really exposed in the conf but the midfield was no better and must take responsability too.

 

[Stephan]

I'm sticking with Legro-Chiellini partnership. They have better understanding, they got used to each others and Legro has been better than Cannavaro in the last 1year+.

I still feel terrible that we had sell Mellberg for unknown/clear reasons.

I am worried that Lippi is controlling the situation here, for give for the expression but Ciro will be a puppet doll and therefore his forced to play canna-chiellini cause Lippi wants that partnership. It seems damn obvious.