Cristiano Ronaldo (235 Viewers)

[BayernFan]

There is one thing about Ronaldo that nobody can deny. He has the GOAT PR. He had millions of fanboys convinced he almost singlehandedly won all those games and titles. Even the ones he didn't play in, like the Euro final.

Even our retarded management got convinced that buying him was like buying the CL trophy itself.

A real testament to the power of his PR machine is that even after the shitshow that this Juve team has been all year, some poor suckers still believe he could bring us the trophy next year.

Ronaldo is amazing but he needs a team to set him up/service him.

He definitely didn't win anything singlehandedly for Real Madrid if we talk CL, in fact was it Ramos and Bale who was the two guys behind their first two titles. He was great in the 2017 final though, also played a decent 2018 final.

But if not for the first two then Real wouldn't have been at 13 CL titles right, maybe still tied at the La Decima number.

 

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[Arcticdaly]

Ramos was the most important player for Real Madrid imo, at least in the first two wins (2014 and 2016). Scored some clutch goals, like the ones against Bayern in 2014, the final in 2014 and also the 2016 final.

Ronaldo was nowhere to be seen in the 2014 final, same with the 2016 final - doesn't mean I don't think he had amazing campaigns, but the biggest reason Real won those two first trophies was because of Ramos being clutch as hell when they needed it the most.

Based on what? because he scored in the final? since when does the final game is the only one that counts ? Ronaldo had 16 goals and 4 assists in 12 games in 2016, a goal record which he went on to beat again another year.

What about he's clutch hatrick against wolfsburg when they where 2-0 down from the first game? I dont remember ramos being clutch there it was ronaldo that dragged them over the line into the semi finals or he's goals vs roma. He was out injured vs city and came back not fully fit into the final.

No one is saying Ramos or others werent important but to just suggest that record goal scorer in there cl wins wasnt as important as ramos because he scored in the final is ridiculous really.

 

[Nedved96]

Because Bale doesent have the quality or consistency of Ronaldo to produce top level performandes regularly. Ronaldo is the best player of this competition ever, you here pretend like replacing him with friggin Bale would make no difference.

When did I ever say replacing Ronaldo with Bale would make no difference at all?

What I said is that Ronaldo switching sides alone would not be enough of a difference to tip the 2017 final in our difference, when their midfield was 10 times better than ours.

Ronaldo hasn't done enough for Juve to justify believing that he alone could help us beat a team with an all-time great midfield.

 

[BayernFan]

Based on what? because he scored in the final? since when does the final game is the only one that counts ? Ronaldo had 16 goals and 4 assists in 12 games in 2016, a goal record which he went on to beat again another year. What about he's clutch hatrick against wolfsburg when they where 2-0 down in from the first game? dont remember ramos being clutch there it was ronaldo that dragged them over the line into the semi finals. He was out injured vs city and came back not fully fit into the final.


No one is saying ramos or others werent important but to just suggest that record goal scorer in there cl wins wasnt as important as ramso because he score in final is ridiculous really.

I never said he wasn't important, where do you read that? Read my post again, I said he had amazing campaigns in all their CL winning seasons - but it's pretty much a fact he was ghosting against Atletico in the two finals played against them.

It's also pretty much a fact if it wasn't for Ramos then they would've lost the 2014 final and I honestly doubt they would've won 3 in a row in the coming years if they didn't win it in 2014. It was so important for them to get that first win, to reach La Decima was the ultimate goal for Real.

It was pretty clear to see they played with much less nerves in 2017 and 2018. It came after they won the two first finals and knew how to win them. But Atletico is/was also fantastic at taking the tempo out of the match and making it ugly.

 

[zizinho]

When did I ever say replacing Ronaldo with Bale would make no difference at all?

What I said is that Ronaldo switching sides alone would not be enough of a difference to tip the 2017 final in our difference, when their midfield was 10 times better than ours.

Ronaldo hasn't done enough for Juve to justify believing that he alone could help us beat a team with an all-time great midfield.

And we had the better GK, better defense and with Ronaldo the better attack and wide areas. But sure, midfield is all that matters.

 

[Arcticdaly]

I never said he wasn't important, where do you read that? Read my post again, I said he had amazing campaigns in all their CL winning seasons - but it's pretty much a fact he was ghosting against Atletico in the two finals played against them.

It's also pretty much a fact if it wasn't for Ramos then they'd lost the 2014 final and I honestly doubt they would've won 3 in a row in the coming years if they didn't win it in 2014. It was so important for them to get that first win, to reach La Decima was the ultimate goal for Real.

I did read your post you said Ramos was the most important player in 2016 and 2014 because of the goal he scored in the final and i just listed knockout games like wolfsburg game where Ronaldo dragged them over the line with hatricks into semi finals etc. and that had 16 goals and 4 assist in 12 games in the 2016 campaign for example. If it wasnt for Ronaldo, Ramos would have never made into final to score so how was he more important ?

I just dont get this logic that the record scorer with clutch goals in knockcout rounds himself is not as important as ramos because he didnt score in the final.

 

[Nedved96]

And we had the better GK, better defense and with Ronaldo the better attack and wide areas. But sure, midfield is all that matters.

Better GK? Navas is one of the most clutch goalkeeper in CL history. We saw it again in the Bayern vs PSG game a few days ago. Prime Buffon is obviously better than Navas, but prime Navas against 40 year old Buffon? Very debatable.

Better defence? Maybe, although CL-Ramos is better than any of our defenders.

Better wide areas? Dani Alves and Alex Sandro are not better than Marcelo and Carvajal, so no.

Anyway, the difference in midfield quality is so lopsided that it outweighs every other area of the pitch.

 

[BayernFan]

I did read your post you said Ramos was the most important player in 2016 and 2014 because of the goal he scored in the final and i just listed knockout games like wolfsburg game where Ronaldo dragged them over the line with hatricks into semi finals etc. and that had 16 goals and 4 assist in 12 games in the 2016 campaign for example. If it wasnt for Ronaldo, Ramos would have never made into final to score so how was he more important ?

I just dont get this logic that the record scorer with clutch goals in knockcout rounds himself is not as important as ramos because he didnt score in the final.

But would it have mattered if they lost those two finals because Ramos didn't score that goal in injury time and didn't give them the lead in 2016?

I'm just playing the devils advocate here. Lewandowski's campaign last season also wouldn't have meant jack shit if we didn't win the final.

And it's not Ramos' job to score the goals is it? But he still did in the most crucial time - the final.

I never said Ramos was more important than Ronaldo in the overall campaigns, of course not. But in the two first finals he turned out to be the most important player, it's as simple as that whether you like it or not.

They were equally important for Real Madrid getting these titles. Ramos was massive in that defense and without him they suffered big time. Ronaldo was the crucial guy scoring a lot of the important goals needed to reach the finals.

 

[zizinho]

Better GK? Navas is one of the most clutch goalkeeper in CL history. We saw it again in the Bayern vs PSG game a few days ago. Prime Buffon is obviously better than Navas, but prime Navas against 40 year old Buffon? Very debatable.

Better defence? Maybe, although CL-Ramos is better than any of our defenders.

Better wide areas? Dani Alves and Alex Sandro are not better than Marcelo and Carvajal, so no.

Anyway, the difference in midfield quality is so lopsided that it outweighs every other area of the pitch.

You obviously talk out your ass on this. Buffon was the best GK in the world that year, people talked about whether he should be balon dor or not. We are talking about spring 2017, not their careers or good strethces they had in other years

Chiellini before injury was the better CB. Ramos scored more but Chiellini was a better defender. And the defense as a whole was better

Dani Alves was in madman form that year and that was the maybe last top class season AS had. Both are also better defenders than Marcelo and Carvajal. Plus Cuads and now with Ronaldo? Against Vazquez and Bale? I think you get the idea, you just are stubborn

Pjanic that few months was maybe the best mid together with Modric and cross, his level was insane in that 4231. Madrid had numbers and quality, but too lopsided to outweight all that? I think you either didnt pay attention at that time or you forget too quickly and just look at names/stats

 

[suligodsilla]

Selling/Not holding Ronaldo would be a step in the wrong direction if you want to win the CL. If you suggest to sell him/not hold him, then you don't see the CL as a target. Very simple.

 

[BayernFan]

Selling/Not holding Ronaldo would be a step in the wrong direction if you want to win the CL. If you suggest to sell him/not hold him, then you don't see the CL as a target. Very simple.

How come you reached two CL finals without Ronaldo then?

 

[zizinho]

How come you reached two CL finals without Ronaldo then?

We had him at the wrong time, if he played here those years maybe we have 3 straight from 2015-17

 

[suligodsilla]

How come you reached two CL finals without Ronaldo then?

Reaching the final is not winning it dude, i don't care if we reach it or not. There is nothing to be prouod of reaching 7 finals and losing them

 

[BayernFan]

We had him at the wrong time, if he played here those years maybe we have 3 straight from 2015-17

I'm just wondering why he says selling Ronaldo means you don't aim for the CL. You aimed pretty well for it the years prior to Ronaldo, I'd say your ambition was even better at that point.

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Reaching the final is not winning it dude, i don't care if we reach it or not. There is nothing to be prouod of reaching 7 finals and losing them

But you still didn't answer my question.

 

[Arcticdaly]

But would it have mattered if they lost those two finals because Ramos didn't score that goal in injury time and didn't give them the lead in 2016?

I'm just playing the devils advocate here. Lewandowski's campaign last season also wouldn't have meant jack shit if we didn't win the final.

And it's not Ramos' job to score the goals is it? But he still did in the most crucial time - the final.

I never said Ramos was more important than Ronaldo in the overall campaigns, of course not. But in the two first finals he turned out to be the most important player, it's as simple as that whether you like it or not.

They were equally important for Real Madrid getting these titles. Ramos was massive in that defense and without him they suffered big time. Ronaldo was the crucial guy scoring a lot of the important goals needed to reach the finals.

Yea and thats a fine point but i still dont see how your putting one importance on guy over another. 16 goals and 4 assists in 12 games is not exactly normals levels of scoring only lewa has gotten close to that last year but he still didnt .

I just hate the way people put eveything down to the final game and all the other games are ingnored. You still have to reach the final in the first place and Ronaldo has done that better any other player.

Its a team game after all and you dont solo win CLs unless you have other good squad mates that help along the way.

 

[Nedved96]

You obviously talk out your ass on this. Buffon was the best GK in the world that year, people talked about whether he should be balon dor or not. We are talking about spring 2017, not their careers or good strethces they had in other years

Chiellini before injury was the better CB. Ramos scored more but Chiellini was a better defender. And the defense as a whole was better

Dani Alves was in madman form that year and that was the maybe last top class season AS had. Both are also better defenders than Marcelo and Carvajal. Plus Cuads and now with Ronaldo? Against Vazquez and Bale? I think you get the idea, you just are stubborn

Pjanic that few months was maybe the best mid together with Modric and cross, his level was insane in that 4231. Madrid had numbers and quality, but too lopsided to outweight all that? I think you either didnt pay attention at that time or you forget too quickly and just look at names/stats

The problem with comparing player-by-player is that our formation was completely different from theirs, so it's not possible to make a direct comparison. We played a 343, they played a 442 diamond. We got outmatched in the middle of the park and they ran us over.

All your hypotheticals about how we would beat Madrid with Ronaldo are baseless based on everything we have seen with Ronaldo at Juve. He hasn't done enough for us to warrant that kind of belief in him.

 

[BayernFan]

Yea and thats fine point but i still dont see how your putting one importance on guy over another. I just hate the way people put eveything down to the final game and all the other games are ingored. You still have to reach the final in the first place and Ronaldo has done that better any other player.

Its a team game after all and you dont solo win CLs unless you have other good squad mates that help along the way.

Of course. I'm not putting Ramos above Ronaldo in terms of Real Madrid getting to the finals in the first place, only that he was the reason they won them until 2017 and 2018.

In the 2014 campaign it was Benzema that scored the first goal against Bayern so Real could take a 1-0 lead to Munich, then Ramos in the second leg with the two clutch headers decided the tie. In the final it was again Ramos and then Bale.

In 2017 Ronaldo was by far the biggest contributor, first with 5 goals against Bayern. Then 3 goals against Atletico and 2 goals in the final against Juve - outstanding campaign.

 

[Juliano13]

How come you reached two CL finals without Ronaldo then?

Like I said, the PR machine has produced a lot of deluded poor suckers.

 

[suligodsilla]

But you still didn't answer my question.

 

[zizinho]

The problem with comparing player-by-player is that our formation was completely different from theirs, so it's not possible to make a direct comparison. We played a 343, they played a 442 diamond. We got outmatched in the middle of the park and they ran us over.

And why you saying midfield is the main reason is stupid. What is Bayerns midfield in 2013 of Schweinsteiger-Martinez compared to Busquets/Fabregas-Xavi-Iniesta? Or Dortmunds Bender-Gundogan-Gotze to Madrids Alonso-Modric-Khedira-Ozil? I could go on and on each year, especially with City and their top midfield in recent years. So what about all those being outmatched by inferior mids? Midfield is not the only important part of a team, and if you outmatch someone in other areas you can more than make up for it.

All your hypotheticals about how we would beat Madrid with Ronaldo are baseless based on everything we have seen with Ronaldo at Juve. He hasn't done enough for us to warrant that kind of belief in him.

Ronaldo at Madrid was 29-33 during their golden run. Here he is 33-36 so far. Still great but obviously not in his prime years and in a team that steadily declines. And he still was the sole bright spot in all our KO stage games up until Porto in recent years. You really are way out of place on this, 'hasnt done enough for us lol'. Who did enough if not him then? Please just stop and go do something else