Coronavirus (COVID-19 Outbreak) (70 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
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Because I don’t think the vaccines are dangerous in the slightest. The reasons they were able to be developed so quickly are quite obvious and have nothing to do with skipping all sorts of steps. Governments guaranteed contracts before development started, so there weren’t wait periods between trial stages while enough manufacturing was done to go through the next stage. Everything required to get through the trial process was produced right away. And at the end large scale manufacturing of the vaccines took place before emergency use authorizations were given. And before anyone says they aren’t authorized, EUA is an authorization. Also, to the “first mRNA vaccine”, the platform for mRNA delivery of vaccines has been developed for quite some time now in other trials and studies. And has been shown to be safe and effective. This is just the first time we’ve actually needed to bring a new vaccine into production on large scale since that platform was developed.
As to why I took it? Because if taking Covid from an IFR of somewhere between 0.5-1.0 down to a 0.05-0.1 (ie. 10x lower so at seasonal flu levels) means society, economy, life will get back rolling even a little bit quicker, that’s a very easy choice to make in my eyes. As well as, going by current evidence, even as a healthy young adult, I’m far more likely to die of, or get hospitalized with plus long term effects from Covid as opposed to these vaccines. Again, easy choice.
If this gets turned into a seasonal flu type of thing thanks to vaccinations and new treatments that will inevitably develop, with an extremely low IFR, then I won’t see any of the above needs for a yearly booster.
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@Quetzalcoatl @AFL_ITALIA
On the note of infection of people who have already been vaccinated. Apparently, from the new studies, the mRNA vaccines are superior to traditional vaccines at preventing asymptomatic infection too. As well as making the virus much less transmissible due to significantly lower viral load if a vaccinated person does still get it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ccine-benefit-were-not-talking-about-enough1/
As to why I took it? Because if taking Covid from an IFR of somewhere between 0.5-1.0 down to a 0.05-0.1 (ie. 10x lower so at seasonal flu levels) means society, economy, life will get back rolling even a little bit quicker, that’s a very easy choice to make in my eyes. As well as, going by current evidence, even as a healthy young adult, I’m far more likely to die of, or get hospitalized with plus long term effects from Covid as opposed to these vaccines. Again, easy choice.
If this gets turned into a seasonal flu type of thing thanks to vaccinations and new treatments that will inevitably develop, with an extremely low IFR, then I won’t see any of the above needs for a yearly booster.
- - - Updated - - -
@Quetzalcoatl @AFL_ITALIA
On the note of infection of people who have already been vaccinated. Apparently, from the new studies, the mRNA vaccines are superior to traditional vaccines at preventing asymptomatic infection too. As well as making the virus much less transmissible due to significantly lower viral load if a vaccinated person does still get it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ccine-benefit-were-not-talking-about-enough1/
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What have I said about mandatory requirements though?
Testing is a reasonable, and IMO better, alternative than using a vaccination designed for your personal symptoms as a substitute measure as to whether you are infected or not.
The problem isn't that you aren't vaccinated in closed space. The problem is that you might be infected.
He's English. He's probably drunkenly swapped vomit and smegma with 25 strangers with roman candles up their asses. No wonder why all his "double jabbed" brothers are coming down with Covid.
It's a simple concept that gets applied all the time: if you are a (possible) threat to society, you are not allowed to participate in said society (for x amount of time).
Only differences being which specific threat you are talking about & which specific parts of society.
Just to be clear: I too dislike the idea of showing a covid certificate to be allowed to enter a specific location or attend a certain event, etc. I just don't see any alternatives for the time being. The main goal is clear: opening up society as much as possible for as many people as possible. (You could even say opening up society for everyone who wants to "participate".)
And what I dislike even more than the idea of a covid passport, is people not willing to accept the consequences of the decision they personally make. (In all aspects of life
)
Only differences being which specific threat you are talking about & which specific parts of society.
Just to be clear: I too dislike the idea of showing a covid certificate to be allowed to enter a specific location or attend a certain event, etc. I just don't see any alternatives for the time being. The main goal is clear: opening up society as much as possible for as many people as possible. (You could even say opening up society for everyone who wants to "participate".)
And what I dislike even more than the idea of a covid passport, is people not willing to accept the consequences of the decision they personally make. (In all aspects of life
)
The problem isn't that you aren't vaccinated in closed space. The problem is that you might be infected.
He's English. He's probably drunkenly swapped vomit and smegma with 25 strangers with roman candles up their asses. No wonder why all his "double jabbed" brothers are coming down with Covid.
That's where I disagree.
Being vaccinated means that you're both a lot less likely to spread the virus & even less likely to get sick because of it.
So if you've got a bunch of people who are all vaccinated in a closed space, things shouldn't get out of hand.
Put a certain amount of unvaccinated people in the mix & the situation changes, obviously. And that's where testing for the unvaccinated becomes reasonable if you ask. To make sure they are not spreading it around.
Sure, those unvaccinated people might still be at risk if a vaccinated person happens to make them sick. But, you know, those individuals could have easily lowered that risk siginificantly to begin with...
Being vaccinated means that you're both a lot less likely to spread the virus & even less likely to get sick because of it.
So if you've got a bunch of people who are all vaccinated in a closed space, things shouldn't get out of hand.
Put a certain amount of unvaccinated people in the mix & the situation changes, obviously. And that's where testing for the unvaccinated becomes reasonable if you ask. To make sure they are not spreading it around.
Sure, those unvaccinated people might still be at risk if a vaccinated person happens to make them sick. But, you know, those individuals could have easily lowered that risk siginificantly to begin with...
If it was that easy corona would be a thing of a past. Instead, we'll be seeing a new wave in a month or so.
If majority of a nation took vaccine I don't think why would they care about the minority of those who didn't take. Hospitals wouldn't be filled thanks to vaccinated people and their risk is lower, as they claim to be.
Director from AZ already said how they don't know if 3rd dose of vaccine will be needed and time will tell. Some already give 3rd dose (Israel). It's all a testing field and there are no strict rules at this point.
I still think we'll be seeing old picture in a couple of months, despite of all those vaccines that have been rolled out.
If majority of a nation took vaccine I don't think why would they care about the minority of those who didn't take. Hospitals wouldn't be filled thanks to vaccinated people and their risk is lower, as they claim to be.
Director from AZ already said how they don't know if 3rd dose of vaccine will be needed and time will tell. Some already give 3rd dose (Israel). It's all a testing field and there are no strict rules at this point.
I still think we'll be seeing old picture in a couple of months, despite of all those vaccines that have been rolled out.
Expert doesn't mean gospel, also the final say goes to you and obviously the one who pays the cost of these choices is once again you. Like i said many times before it doesn't matter if the intention is good or the measure sounds righteous, the undeniable question always remains: at what cost? The reason i asked you that question is there's people, whom you call expert, who say things like the below. You willing to go along with this? Because I'm sure from the policy makers to the people who follow them, we will find ourselves in long winding road of escalation of commitment. Pretty soon you won't know how you got there.
Yes, vaccinations do, coincidentally, decrease your infection rate and chance of spread. But not nearly as well as they prevent symptoms.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/
So it's a cheap and lazy person's substitute for what really matters: whether you are infected or not.
Take the freaking test. Or take the cheap shortcut of saying, "Hey, I'm vaxxed.... everyone is safe here."
And yet they do.
https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/covid-delta-variant-infection-breakthrough-pandemic.html
We've known that COVID has asymptomatic spread since January 2020. I'm dumbfounded that people are doubting that now for vaccinated people.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/
So it's a cheap and lazy person's substitute for what really matters: whether you are infected or not.
Take the freaking test. Or take the cheap shortcut of saying, "Hey, I'm vaxxed.... everyone is safe here."
And yet they do.
https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/covid-delta-variant-infection-breakthrough-pandemic.html
We've known that COVID has asymptomatic spread since January 2020. I'm dumbfounded that people are doubting that now for vaccinated people.
Since I don't understand a single word of that article, I wonder what "restrictions" he's talking about.
Because restrictions really could mean anything from not being allowed to enter the country if you have not been vaccinated up to continous lockdowns. And everything in between.
Starting from August 13th, pretty much everything (except for some indoor gatherings) will be allowed again over here. And yeah, there will be restrictions. One restriction actually: a Covid passport. Green means go nuts, red means no entrance.
Like I said earlier, it's not ideal, but if that is the only restriction there is, I'll gladly accept it. For however long necessary.
I agree with everything you said here, no doubt about it.
But my focus is slightly different. The number of infected people, to me, is a lot less important than the number of (very) sick people. As in, can healthcare keep up with it?
As for the bold part, my shortcut would be "Hey, I'm vaxxed, I'm safe. If you have also been vaxxed, you're safe as well. If not, maybe you aren't safe, your choice."
There was a pretty interesting interview with one of our leading guys a week or so ago, where he literally said that, because of the delta variant, everybody (as in literally 100% of the population) will develop antibodies in the near future. Up to you how to get them: through the vaccine or through infection.
Edit: so basically saying that group immunity because of a high enough vaccination rate would not be possible.
Because restrictions really could mean anything from not being allowed to enter the country if you have not been vaccinated up to continous lockdowns. And everything in between.
Starting from August 13th, pretty much everything (except for some indoor gatherings) will be allowed again over here. And yeah, there will be restrictions. One restriction actually: a Covid passport. Green means go nuts, red means no entrance.
Like I said earlier, it's not ideal, but if that is the only restriction there is, I'll gladly accept it. For however long necessary.
I agree with everything you said here, no doubt about it.
But my focus is slightly different. The number of infected people, to me, is a lot less important than the number of (very) sick people. As in, can healthcare keep up with it?
As for the bold part, my shortcut would be "Hey, I'm vaxxed, I'm safe. If you have also been vaxxed, you're safe as well. If not, maybe you aren't safe, your choice."
There was a pretty interesting interview with one of our leading guys a week or so ago, where he literally said that, because of the delta variant, everybody (as in literally 100% of the population) will develop antibodies in the near future. Up to you how to get them: through the vaccine or through infection.
Edit: so basically saying that group immunity because of a high enough vaccination rate would not be possible.
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Yes, infection isn't what it used to be. At least if you're vaccinated.
If the goal is still to keep the health system from overflowing (and it's not always clear that's the case), then unvaccinated people shouldn't be indoors without being tested -- mask wearing aside. So in that sense, being indoors among the vaccinated is pretty legit to be a spreader club as it naturally was in 2019.
If the goal is still to keep the health system from overflowing (and it's not always clear that's the case), then unvaccinated people shouldn't be indoors without being tested -- mask wearing aside. So in that sense, being indoors among the vaccinated is pretty legit to be a spreader club as it naturally was in 2019.
