Cartoon anger is a misrepresentation (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Zé Tahir
- Start date
thanx
Its mainly ignorance, couple that with angry mobs, you will get a recipe for disaster, no matter what the issue was.
Trust me it is the satire, Muslims felt it was dregatory. There are numerous instances in Islamic history where the prophet was drawn, perhaps most of them his face was covered, but never offending, it just depicted different situations in his life. Most Muslims do not know this though, as these pictures never gained popularity, because true most scholars forbid drawing him. But my point is that dregatory aspect of the cartoons not just drawing him is what offended Muslims. Now childrens book you say?? Thats even worse you know Mikhail! Well if you are gonna teach your children or the danish children that the Muhammads turban is a bomb, doesn't that just breed even more hate or fear towards a specific race/religion of this world??
Broke rule 1 of my post, check my first ground rule
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But why are you asking me?? I don't wanna talk actually about Mohammed, if you care enough you will go back and read about him from impartial sources. Me being a Muslim would only detract from whatever I say.
Its mainly ignorance, couple that with angry mobs, you will get a recipe for disaster, no matter what the issue was.
It is the crux of the matter, isn't it. I'm not entirely sure where I stand here. Should your beliefs be foisted on the Danes? Probably not. Should they have published cartoons they knew would offend? Probably not.
The argument that it's not satire doesn't wash with me though. The violent reaction has done more to reinforce negative steriotypes of Muslims in the west than all the cartoons in Denmark ever could. In a sense, the Danes made a point - they pointed out that some guy couldn't get anyone to illustrate his children's book about Mohammed because of fears of Islamic reprisal. They demonstrated that they were right. How is that right, that a man can't write a children's book without reprisal? :frown:
The argument that it's not satire doesn't wash with me though. The violent reaction has done more to reinforce negative steriotypes of Muslims in the west than all the cartoons in Denmark ever could. In a sense, the Danes made a point - they pointed out that some guy couldn't get anyone to illustrate his children's book about Mohammed because of fears of Islamic reprisal. They demonstrated that they were right. How is that right, that a man can't write a children's book without reprisal? :frown:
Broke rule 1 of my post, check my first ground rule
.But why are you asking me?? I don't wanna talk actually about Mohammed, if you care enough you will go back and read about him from impartial sources. Me being a Muslim would only detract from whatever I say.
I've read that the Koran doesn't forbid this. Is that true, and if so, do you know when the practice was introduced?
The bomb one wasn't intended for any book! :wink: That was satire the point of which was emphasised by the embassy burnings and the threats towards Europe, etc. It's sad the the reaction did nothing but reinforce the steriotype, but you can't fight a steriotype of you by behaving that way.
I understand, I really do. I just want reasonable people to think about their beliefs, like you said the Koran advises.
There's no such thing as a truely impartial source, and I trust someone like you to give me a reasonable outline - deep study is time consuming, but it's just cultural knowledge for you. That's why.
The bomb one wasn't intended for any book! :wink: That was satire the point of which was emphasised by the embassy burnings and the threats towards Europe, etc. It's sad the the reaction did nothing but reinforce the steriotype, but you can't fight a steriotype of you by behaving that way.
Broke rule 1 of my post, check my first ground rule.
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There's no such thing as a truely impartial source, and I trust someone like you to give me a reasonable outline - deep study is time consuming, but it's just cultural knowledge for you. That's why.
Zlatan
True, but what realistic benefit does an eu citizen have from other new members, Slovakia, Malta, or future members like Romania and Bulgaria?
I personaly dont see how they are in any better economic or other state than Turkey, yet they are being accepted. That would mean that realigion is the only major issue regarding Turkey's addmitance. And I personaly think that the Turks are the most westernized muslim nation if you will.
In fact, the only muslims that are closer to the western lifestyle are Bosnian muslims, which are, in fact, regarded as the most "european" muslims, in terms of religion, culture, life style, etc, and I personaly can testify to that. I have a lot of friends that go to the mosque once a week (fridays), that have negative opinions about the cartoons, that believe in god, but at the same time who are no different that "europeans", that get drunk on the weekends (well, actually, round here Thursdays the new Saturdays ), etc. See my point.
True, but what realistic benefit does an eu citizen have from other new members, Slovakia, Malta, or future members like Romania and Bulgaria?
I personaly dont see how they are in any better economic or other state than Turkey, yet they are being accepted. That would mean that realigion is the only major issue regarding Turkey's addmitance. And I personaly think that the Turks are the most westernized muslim nation if you will.
In fact, the only muslims that are closer to the western lifestyle are Bosnian muslims, which are, in fact, regarded as the most "european" muslims, in terms of religion, culture, life style, etc, and I personaly can testify to that. I have a lot of friends that go to the mosque once a week (fridays), that have negative opinions about the cartoons, that believe in god, but at the same time who are no different that "europeans", that get drunk on the weekends (well, actually, round here Thursdays the new Saturdays
), etc. See my point.
As for the turks, and honestly no offence is meant by this but many people in this country myself included would not feel able to fully trust them and there is huge animosity between our countries which always seems to end in violence. The culture is completely different and its just not clever thinking to let them into the EU imo.
If it were up to me I'd happily let you bosnians into the Eu but sadly it ain't
The thing that you have to understand Mikhail that Quran is not the only source of Sharia. The Quran is the major source and anything that contradicts it is automatically refuted. Hadith or the saying and actions of the prophet is the second source. Two other sources of sharia or Islamic legeslations that are not widely known is measurment and the Islamic Umma unanimously agreeing on something. Measurment is when you measure something that is not mentioned in Quran and Hadith with something mentioned. For example drugs are not forbiden in the first two sources but scholars measured them with alcohol, hence drugs are haram or forbidden. The final source is when all Islamic scholars unanimously agree on something. Anyways Quran did not explicitly forbid portraying prophets, but I am pretty sure it has implicitly, I do not remember the verse(s), I will get them when I look into it. But in any case, portraying is forbidden as a way to avoid idolism. Of course I as a monothesist would not worship a picture or statue I created or created in my time, but future generations might. This is what happened historically all around the world. Pagans of Makkah for example worshipped statues of good people or people of god, these statues were not sculptured and immediatly worshiped but future generations did.
What practice do you mean? forbidding them?
This is exactly what saddens me, the more the violence the more this stereotype would stick. I just hope that you understand my reasoning about why such cartoons are racist, and should be treated like any racist chants.
I could go on and on telling you stories about Mohammed that show you how great he is. If you are interested just ask and I will compile something for ya
What practice do you mean? forbidding them?
This is exactly what saddens me, the more the violence the more this stereotype would stick. I just hope that you understand my reasoning about why such cartoons are racist, and should be treated like any racist chants.
I could go on and on telling you stories about Mohammed that show you how great he is. If you are interested just ask and I will compile something for ya