Board & Management (79 Viewers)

[Valerio.]

Also they're saying that "the proof" that condemned us is that black book of FP wrote by Cherubini

 

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[DeviAngel]

Seems like we really fucked up.

But hey Seeie B might be the restart we need. -.-

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Can he flush himself down the toilet? It’s where poop is supposed to go

Or he can swim in his own pool of shit

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Also they're saying that "the proof" that condemned us is that black book of FP wrote by Cherubini

Oh that black book just like those infamous Swiss sim cards which never existed in 2006

 

[Akshen]

Seems like we really fucked up.

But hey Seeie B might be the restart we need. -.-

yeah, it seems so, even if i think we can still win appeal for this one as this is bullshit, but the other case i have really bad feeling about

First of all is the disturbing "Black Book of FP" (ie Fabio Paratici). Such a document, it should be noted, has never been disowned by the editor
(Federico Cherubini) and has been defended by FC Juventus SpA which, together with the aforementioned manager, has made it their own,
only by proposing a different interpretation to that offered by the Federal Prosecutor's Office , claiming it was a normal work "note".

Now, the most relevant demonstrative element, in the opinion of the Federal Court, is not only the textual content of said "Black Book of FP",
which is in itself all too explicit. Rather, the context in which it was drafted is relevant (as an irredeemable confirmation of its exact content).
Indeed, it emerges that said "Book" had been prepared by Cherubini as a document to be used in his discussion with Paratici during the
negotiation phase of his contractual renewal (the circumstance is confirmed by Cherubini's own statements; see file no. 656108 transmitted to
the Federal Prosecutor's Office by the Public Prosecutor's Office).

Naturally, it is not relevant here to make exorbitant interpretations or to hazard qualifications regarding Cherubini's behavior in itself or his
relationship with Fabio Paratici. But, on a detached reading of such a circumstance, however, the unveiling capacity of said Black Book is well
understood. It is clear that Cherubini was ready to contradict Paratici to discuss his own contract (accepting or rejecting it, it doesn't matter)
and was ready to put on the discussion table what Cherubini himself believed to be important "differences of views": that is, the fact that Fabio
Paratici had constantly operated through a system of artificial capital gains.

And it is clear that in writing the "Black Book of FP", Cherubini represented true facts that today can no longer be effectively denied.

It is for this reason that FC Juventus SpA's failure to disown the document and distance itself from it - regardless of any further relevance - has
a devastating effect on sporting loyalty.

The content of the "Black Book of FP" constitutes an unequivocal objective element. All the more taking into account the circumstance (and we
will return to it later in more detail) that the purpose of the sporting process is obviously not to infer the consummation of any offense of a
criminal nature. Subject to judgment is only the violation of sporting rules: specifically, of art. 4, paragraph 1 and of the art. 31, paragraph 1.

 

[juve123]

Juventus planned capital gains regardless of the identification of a player itself, but for the final economic value to be achieved.
As represented by the FIGC Prosecutor's Office and above all by Consob, Juventus' financial statements are simply not reliable."

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Can anybody tell me if there is no law relating to capital gains how are we punished. Kangaroo court in play mostly accusations rather than anything concrete.

 

[Scottish]

Also they're saying that "the proof" that condemned us is that black book of FP wrote by Cherubini

It's always a ominous 'black book' isn't it? Why is evidence never found in a My Little Pony book or something like that?

Oh, because it's not scary and doesn't imply guilt just by the description thats why

 

[Rockets]

Hopefully they sell those in the Juve store.

or display them in J-museum

 

[Scottish]

or display them in J-museum

Have we replaced the manager of the museum yet?

 

[Rockets]

Have we replaced the manager of the museum yet?

I'd give that job to Allegri.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

LMAO it says that Cherubini created a document called Black book of FP (fabio paratici) where he described all his wrong doings.

Rumour has it, it's a 1200 page book.

 

[juve123]

New acts prove and interceptions prove evidence of concealing documentation or even manipulating invoices. Planned capital gains regardless of a player itself (indicated with an X) but for the final economic value to be achieved is an offence.

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Is manipulating invoices a crime ? Kangaroo court judiciary at its best. We are definitely heading to Serie b.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Is manipulating invoices a crime ?

Is this a serious question?

 

[juve123]

Is this a serious question?

Obviously because it is the first time i am seeing criminal fiction being written by judges also punishment without any specific law relating to capital gains.

 

[s4tch]

Rumour has it, it's a 1200 page book.

in fact it's rumored to be one single sheet of paper

 

[DAiDEViL]

in fact it's rumored to be one single sheet of paper

Would be great if he forgot it at some restaurant.

Full circle.

 

[Gagi]

we should've recieved fine, as well as the other teams, and not just those highlighted, because i'm pretty sure everyone else does it, bastoni deal for example.

in the end we got 15 pts deduction, others are fine, that's just stupid and sad. if they investigate other clubs, they will find similar or worse shit.

i remember seeing the list of those capital gains transfers of ours, and like 90 percent or more of transfers were done with italian clubs, usually some swap deals where both teams gain plusvalenza. if that really is the case, then how come only juve is sanctioned, and not the other teams, and there are many of them, in green. and ofc we're gonna have way more deals than others with our 23 setup.

not saying our execs are saints, they're assholes just like everyone in this league.

and lastly, how the fuck is someone going to say X player does not worth 2/5/10m with ongoing inflated market

this is all stupid and it makes me sick that we're in the middle of it

 

[juve123]

“Juventus violated the rules in an unregulated situation.”

The reason for our -15 points

 

[Scottish]

Translated to English for anyone interested

Pg 15

As far as I understand after a light read, this is what happened with the first trials

On the merits, then, the Federal Court held that only some of the sales examined presented those characteristics that the same federal prosecutor had identified as symptomatic elements of fictitious transactions and that, although suspicious, said sales (and related capital gains) did not exceed the threshold of reasonable certainty in terms, precisely, of fictitiousness.

According to the Court, then, the evaluation method adopted by the federal prosecutor's office could be considered «a» evaluation method, but not «the» evaluation method. The comparison with the evaluations present on the Transfermarkt site (although used in certain appraisals or referred to in some contracts by conventional will of the contracting parties) could not corroborate the aforementioned fictitiousness. Compared to the one adopted by the federal prosecutor's office, therefore, other evaluation methods could be opposed, equally worthy of appreciation. In conclusion, the Court held that there was no "the" method of assessing the value of the consideration for the transfer/acquisition of a footballer's sporting services. The market value - argued the Court - represents the value paid by the acquiring company at the end of a free, real and effective negotiation of that right on the reference market; and the free market cannot be guided by an evaluation method (whatever it may be) which identifies and determines the correct value of each individual sale. If only - the Court still held - because, in that case, the free market would no longer exist for the setting of transfer considerations substantially predetermined by that valuation method. And it was no coincidence - concluded the Court - that the same federal prosecutor had to refer itself to the fair value and the recall of parameters identified by doctrine and practice, which are also in reality far from objective and instead subjective as much as the capital gains they wanted to criticise. Hence, as mentioned, the acquittal of all defendants.

And this is why they reopened:

Against such a decision, the federal prosecutor lodged a complaint relying on multiple reasons

. In particular, the federal prosecutor deduced the unreasonableness and erroneousness of the reasoning in relation to the jurisprudential principles dictated on occasions deemed comparable, even though the prosecutor himself scrupulously complied in his actions with the critical evaluation processes used in the past with respect to cases of fictitious capital gains. He therefore deduced an omitted and incorrect pronouncement even only from the point of view of the principles sanctioned by art. 4 of the CGS, precisely having to consider incomprehensible not only the rejection of the dispute concerning the violation of art. 31 CGS, but even the contestation of the violation of the basic principles of loyalty, correctness and probity established by federal law. The Federal Public Prosecutor further argued the contradictory reasoning with which the Court had deemed non-existent "the" method of assessing the value of the consideration for the sale/acquisition of a footballer's sports services, as well as the erroneous application of the principles regarding the burden of proof, having essentially asked the Court for the absolute certainty of the commission of the offence.

In the light of the reasons set forth, the federal prosecutor therefore concluded for the complete reform of the decision burdened with the affirmation of the appellants' responsibility for all the violations attributed to them with the deed of referral

Then the objections to the re-opening (by all parties, apparently) - google translation isn't great here, sorry:

All the deferred persons appeared in the proceedings to resist the federal prosecutor's complaint, requesting in any case its rejection.
According to the defenses of the deferred appellants, the jurisprudential references of the Federal Prosecutor's Office, like the evaluation methods of the same proposed to criticize the Court's decision, were now ineffective, now lacking in relevance to the characteristics of the players transferred and the technical advice produced in court by at least some of the deferred.

The decision of the Tribunal, therefore, had to be considered correctly motivated on an absolutely logical ratio decidendi or that "in the absence of any
symptomatic element of the existence of agreements between the transferring companies and the purchasing ones aimed at the fictitious overestimation of the rights to the sporting performance of the players as well as a general regulatory provision [...] those in question could not [could] than to be considered free market negotiations” (such was the brief on appeal by FC Juventus S.p.A.). For this reason, “the Federal Court, excluding the existence of probative elements demonstrating an instrumental and improper use of the freedom of contract by the deferred parties, recognizing the non-existence of predetermined regulatory criteria on the basis of which to attribute a specific value to the rights to a footballer's sporting performances and the evaluation method developed by the Public Prosecutor was deemed unusable federal government, therefore logically established that the transfers subject to the referral cannot constitute a disciplinary offense" (such again was the FC Juventus S.p.A. argument)

That's all I have time for now

 

[GordoDeCentral]

in fact it's rumored to be one single sheet of paper

The one he forgot at the restaurant?

 

[juve123]