Best Midfielders (1 Viewer)

[#10]

u cant say ballack takes better free kicks than Zizou!!

 

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[Anders]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++


Ballack these advantages over Zidane: Free-kicking ability,

Wouldn't agree with you there...

 

[Ian]

Ballack is a great free-kick taker. He has better range, more power, and greater accuracy than Zidane. Zidane may put more spin on the ball, but he is not a great free-kicker. That's why he doesn't take that many.

 

[Adrian]

Zidane doesnt take many free kicks because which club he plays for, they have many free kick takers.

Example: at juve, Del Piero takes free kicks and set peices. And i think Del Piero's accuracy from free kicks are a lot better than many in europe. At Real Madrid, you have Carlos and figo who zidans has to share with as well.

Zidane has taken some great free kicks in his time, and if he was given the chance every game, you would find that he would be one of the best.

 

[DKNY]

++ [ originally posted by Adrian ] ++
Zidane doesnt take many free kicks because which club he plays for, they have many free kick takers.

Example: at juve, Del Piero takes free kicks and set peices. And i think Del Piero's accuracy from free kicks are a lot better than many in europe. At Real Madrid, you have Carlos and figo who zidans has to share with as well.

Zidane has taken some great free kicks in his time, and if he was given the chance every game, you would find that he would be one of the best.

i like watching DP takin' free kicks,soooo KOOL!~:cheesy::cheesy::thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[Christian_Vieri]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++

Do you not think that Ballack's edge in speed and strength make him a better playmaker?

Only if Zidane wasn't superior to him on the "other areas."

Ballack these advantages over Zidane: Free-kicking ability, Finishing, Shooting, Heading, Strength, Speed, Stamina, Tackling, Marking, and he makes better runs off of the ball.

finishing-no, shooting-yes, heading-definitely, stamina-sure, tackling-no (Watch some old Juve games, and you'll find out it's hard to get around him, and most of the time he pokes the ball outta you.), marking-right, makes better runs-maybe (Ballack's aggression is the key here.), speed-again it all comes down to Ballack's aggression, but Zidane can sure as hell sprint. He's a calm sorta player like Schneider, but that doesn't mean he can't get those legs movin'. But I'll say yes, but his speed has got nothing to do with his game.) strength-definitely not....how did you come up with that? Not many people can bring
Zizou down!

In all of those things, Ballack is significantly better than Zidane. Zidane may be a better passer or have better touch, but only marginally.

I'm sorry, but that's kinda funny. "In all those things Ballack is 'significantly' better than Zidane?" And Zidane is a better passer with a better touch, and that's "only marginally." I think you got it the other way around bro.

And thus, I conclude that Ballack is the superior player and the superior play-maker.

Again you're saying the superior player is the superior playmaker.

Furthermore, I haven't "lessened" Zidane's abilities at all. I doubt that you could effectively argue that Zidane is a better finisher than Ballack or that he is stronger.

I can't effectively argue Zizou is the better finisher (but neither can you on those examples where you stated Ballack is "significantly better," except his scoring abilities ofcoarse), but I can effectively argue that Zizou is stronger.

Furthermore, Ballack can produce more velocity on a free-kick, and perhaps he's got the range; but Zidane surely has a better accuracy. Also Zidane may not score as much as Ballack, but at the end of the day, [being the true playmaker] he sets up more goals than Ballack himself scores.

In conclusion, I'll give you Ballack is the best CM out there. But being the best playmaker out there is a whole different topic. To start off, that's not even his position. He's a true gunner out there who scores goals off of wingers' support, and you can call him an AM, but definitely not a natural playmaker. Then, if you do force him to play as one, or compare him to others, he falls well short.

P.S. I got a question for you (just wondering): Do you see Rivaldo as a playmaker?

 

[Christian_Vieri]

++ [ originally posted by sheva ] ++
Hey guys I think this is a great discussion/ argument
However I truly believe that on Rui Costa's day that he is better than Zidane. Zizou was a late bloomer at Juve , wasn't he? He was never really the of Juve until Del Piero's injury. I think Rui Costa has always been magical but could never get the recognition until recently because he plays for Milan now.
You see a player is never going to win World Player of the Year unless his team WINS something.
Zidane-Played for Juventus the dreadest side and France,World Cup and Euro.

Rui -Played at Fiorentina forever and Portugal.Yes good sides , but never the best:dazed:
The same for Shevchenko. Single handedly took Ukraine to the World Cup Playoffs being leading scorer at the time.Or for Dynamo Kiev where he beat every big side in the world that they played in Champions League, Real ,Barca,Arsenal,Bayern,and I think Lazio tooUntil Ukraine win something he could never get it.
Anyway,You see of recent matches Rui seems to either be the cheese in the cheese cake or the Parmatti of Juve.But even in Ac vs Real ,Rui did outclass Mybe its just me , but Real did go for Rui first, before Silvio Berscolini(really bad spelling), president of Italy stepped in.Anyway there are lots of young talents that could definately surpass Zizou, because when Zidane was 23-25 he definately wasn't as good as D'allesandro, Riquelme, Aimar, Van der Vart, Robinho,Diego etc.
Later Sheva.

Sheva, I like your argument on Rui and Sheva. It's very true that a lot of times good footballers who aren't from Argentina, Brazil, or one of the European powerhouses, doesn't get the recognition they deserve. For them, it takes a longer time to prove their worth than someone who can showcase their skills at the "top" level. It's good to see that finally Turkey and their players get the respect they deserve, but teams like USA and their players still has a long way to go. By the way has anyone seen McBride at Everton?

 

[Martin]

I agree on all points with Bobo, as a playmaker Zizou is unmatched. He also scores good free kicks although he doesn't execute them as often as Del Piero or Ballack. And a rarity among playmakers, his strength makes it hard to disarm him as you would Aimar or Maradona.

But on overall ability Ballack is excellent, very versatile.

 

[Martin]

sheva, I will give you this.. Rui is to me the ultimate incarnation of elegance and finesse. Above Zizou even

 

[Dj Juve]

how tame very dissapointed...i was hoping for fireworks like in the Naturally gifted crap thread...:groan: tame tame...

 

[Primo]

++ [ originally posted by [DJ Juve] ] ++
joe cole can be one of the best..but he isnt going to do that at west ham

are there interested teams interested to sign him? or has he become a too expensive youngster already? I'm sure a lot of top clubs can lure him out of west ham.

 

[Primo]

++ [ originally posted by Christian_Vieri ] ++


Well a playmaker's job is to make plays, no? Your definition of a playmaker seems to be a player who can make plays, attack, defend, score, head, sprint at a dashing speed, or any other aspect of a footballer's game. So a defender has to know how to score goals in order to be a good defender? It'll definitely be a plus, but it won't make him any less of a defender. Zidane does what's assigned for him in his position. To a lesser degree he does have to defend (believe/accept it or not, he's actually a good defender) for his team, but primarily, to a greater extent, it's the DM's job who plays behind Zizou. If he wasn't a good defender it'll take little away from him, but if he wasn't a good passer the effect of his game would be totally opposite. Ballack is one of the most complete midfielders out there, but again, he's not as good a playmaker.
You said everything Zidane can do Ballack can also, but even more. How so?? The only advantages Ballack has over Zizou are his goal scoring abilities: shots, headers; aggression; and possibly speed and stamina. Is Ballack as good a passer as el Maestro? What about his vision? His touch? How about their level of experience?.....No, not even close. Don't lessen the player's true capabilities for the sake of your own argument.

this is turning to be quite a spectacle..
what did i miss?

 

[Primo]

++ [ originally posted by sheva ] ++
Hey guys I think this is a great discussion/ argument
However I truly believe that on Rui Costa's day that he is better than Zidane. Zizou was a late bloomer at Juve , wasn't he? He was never really the of Juve until Del Piero's injury. I think Rui Costa has always been magical but could never get the recognition until recently because he plays for Milan now.
You see a player is never going to win World Player of the Year .......... because when Zidane was 23-25 he definately wasn't as good as D'allesandro, Riquelme, Aimar, Van der Vart, Robinho,Diego etc.
Later Sheva.

excellent point...

 

[Primo]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++


Ballack these advantages over Zidane: Free-kicking ability,

I dont think so. But dont take my word for it, I'm not a fan of Zidane's free-kick either. Del Piero has to be the deadliest free-kick specialist..no bias in that, just hard facts!

 

[slack]

As a playmaker, I hafta give ZZ the nod over Ballack. Then again, that's apples versus oranges in terms of positions. Awareness, anticipation, the ability to improvise and execute it all are fundamental considerations to assess a playmaker. ZZ aces all with some to spare. His one outstanding feature must be his incredible technique, for I have never seen a modern player as yet to possess such unbelievable ball control. I read that he dabbled in dancing in his youth, which probably explains those seemingly elastic limbs and awkward grace.

Ballack though is the complete package, one who does everything excellently but not to the extreme levels of proficiency in specialization that people like ZZ does. Ballack also appears to be the more resilient and reliable player as well, able to drive the midfield himself and exert a greater overall influence in that department particularly in adversity. The latter is something that's somewhat suspect with ZZ, who 'disappears' when subjected to rough-house tactics with man-marking ... not to mention a surprising dark side in temperament too.

Agree that Rui Costa is the epitome of elegance, much like DP is one of artistry! The common characteristics are an acute awareness, superior understanding of the situation around and fabulous technique, each unique in serving their individual masters in their respective functions.

Applying to Juve's context right now, I feel we have a greater use of a Ballack than a ZZ right now. Afterall, that's the main point, ain't it?

 

[Dj Juve]

++ [ originally posted by primo_calcio ] ++


are there interested teams interested to sign him? or has he become a too expensive youngster already? I'm sure a lot of top clubs can lure him out of west ham.

who knows, they might be a relegation clause in his contract :hoping:

 

[Anders]

++ [ originally posted by primo_calcio ] ++

Del Piero has to be the deadliest free-kick specialist..no bias in that, just hard facts!

We all love Del Piero, and he's good at taking free-kicks... but come on! David Beckham is the best. I'm no fan of his or his screwed up club, but he is simply the best when it comes to free-kicks.

 

[slack]

Btw, in terms of set-pieces, deadballs ie. freekicks, corners and stuff, ZZ is unfortunately not as consistently good as some of the other big-names. By that, I mean the Rivaldos, Figos, DPs and even Beckhams.

 

[Stu]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++
Ballack is a great free-kick taker. He has better range, more power, and greater accuracy than Zidane. Zidane may put more spin on the ball, but he is not a great free-kicker. That's why he doesn't take that many.

I thoroughly agree with you my Ricken-backed friend.

 

[Stu]

++ [ originally posted by Adrian ] ++
Zidane doesnt take many free kicks because which club he plays for, they have many free kick takers.

Example: at juve, Del Piero takes free kicks and set peices. And i think Del Piero's accuracy from free kicks are a lot better than many in europe. At Real Madrid, you have Carlos and figo who zidans has to share with as well.

Zidane has taken some great free kicks in his time, and if he was given the chance every game, you would find that he would be one of the best.

I agree with what you are saying,but the reason why Zizou doesn't get to take as much free kicks as say Del Piero or Beckham is because he just isn't "that" good. If he were one of the best he wouldn't have to share with Carlos or Figo,but the fact is that he isn't one of the best.