I hope the fans won't either jeer or cheer him on Tuesday. He deserves the silent treatment.
Buy on AliExpress.com
Arturo Vidal (97 Viewers)
- Thread starter Azzurri7
- Start date
Buy on AliExpress.com
CL hardly meant a thing before 25-30 years ago, when Bayern won most of their CL trophies.
And not counting the other trophies back before the modern era expanded CL is stupid. For the longest time only 1-2 clubs from each league played in the CL. 2nd place teams played in Europa equivalent. That trophy meant a lot at the time.
Aside from this, valuing 3 extra CL trophies over 8 extra league titles in what historically is the toughest league (most years at top of UEFA coefficient), 1 more total UEFA title, 5 more years ranked as number 1 club by UEFA coefficients, is just absurd and entirely disregards the history of football and absurdly overinflates the value of a single trophy.
If you value CL so highly you probably place Milan over us historically speaking as well. Because they have even more CL than Bayern. Absurd way to place value on clubs, with a single trophy in a single competition that has a far greater element of luck attached to it than winning the toughest league in football 33 times.
- - - Updated - - -
I value CL a ton, especially in this modern era... Historically speaking, nowhere near as much. But placing a lot of value on CL doesn't mean one has to be absurd about devaluing Serie A and other European comps from the past.
And not counting the other trophies back before the modern era expanded CL is stupid. For the longest time only 1-2 clubs from each league played in the CL. 2nd place teams played in Europa equivalent. That trophy meant a lot at the time.
Aside from this, valuing 3 extra CL trophies over 8 extra league titles in what historically is the toughest league (most years at top of UEFA coefficient), 1 more total UEFA title, 5 more years ranked as number 1 club by UEFA coefficients, is just absurd and entirely disregards the history of football and absurdly overinflates the value of a single trophy.
If you value CL so highly you probably place Milan over us historically speaking as well. Because they have even more CL than Bayern. Absurd way to place value on clubs, with a single trophy in a single competition that has a far greater element of luck attached to it than winning the toughest league in football 33 times.
- - - Updated - - -
I value CL a ton, especially in this modern era... Historically speaking, nowhere near as much. But placing a lot of value on CL doesn't mean one has to be absurd about devaluing Serie A and other European comps from the past.
Bayern upside is a sick generation in the 70s that did it all in a short span in a way we haven't (CL). But besides that we should have the slight upper hand. Internationally bigger and better league we dominated, have had better more high profile global stars players and draw, while their main profiles are German legends.
That's speaking historically, because even if CL is super important it's not all, or Liverpool would be seen as our surperiors. But all that matters right now is they are seen as the bigger and better club competively, there is no denying it either. And they are so despite playing in a league that's barely followed globally, so yeah defenitely got their shit in order in a way we need to reach too. Getting closer but not there yet. When we do, we should capitalize on it more because as said Italian league has more historical draw and interest globally then German one, regardless of its sorry current state (huge different to be from country with biggiest economy in Europe compared to a joke of a one right now).
That's speaking historically, because even if CL is super important it's not all, or Liverpool would be seen as our surperiors. But all that matters right now is they are seen as the bigger and better club competively, there is no denying it either. And they are so despite playing in a league that's barely followed globally, so yeah defenitely got their shit in order in a way we need to reach too. Getting closer but not there yet. When we do, we should capitalize on it more because as said Italian league has more historical draw and interest globally then German one, regardless of its sorry current state (huge different to be from country with biggiest economy in Europe compared to a joke of a one right now).
Exactly.And his public invitations to Coman to join Bayern.And now,before the game ,he is stating that he loves Juve.Not nearly a legend.Just a player who spend few years at Juve like many others.Nothing more.
- - - Updated - - -
X please help.Was that from "Goodfellas" movie or "Godfather"?I think that it was from the first?
- - - Updated - - -
X please help.Was that from "Goodfellas" movie or "Godfather"?I think that it was from the first?
Milan were with us in Serie A so it does matter in comparing the teams since we were rivals and by have having that many serie A titles over them it means we beat them during those seasons. Bayern is not in the same competition with us and so even though serie A has been historically the better competition I wouldnt say Juve had a better season than Bayern if both teams won their respective leagues and both did equally good/bad in Europe. Its not like Bayern played in Serie A and flopped, they dominated the competition that they have in Germany. Europe is where the two teams can meet and they have been substantially better than us in the competition that matters. Madrid similarly has the larger history in my view not because of how many league titles they have (its enough that they have were absolutely dominating for the longest periods like us in Serie A) but for their superiority in Europe. I place no regard to UEFA coefficient at all and hardly anyone does (FIFA rankings as well). Winning is what matters the most and in the most prestigious trophy in football our club is very lacking both in the past and in the present.
In any case there is again no objective metric here for what counts as the greater history, whichever way you want to argue the difference between the clubs is minimal. The present however, is clearly in favor of Bayern and so when I said Bayern is the better club, that is currently true over the last decade and so it makes sense for Vidal to want to take the next step in his career. If he had gone to Madrid instead and made the same comments you'd still be pissed off even though the history argument would never be on your side.
In any case there is again no objective metric here for what counts as the greater history, whichever way you want to argue the difference between the clubs is minimal. The present however, is clearly in favor of Bayern and so when I said Bayern is the better club, that is currently true over the last decade and so it makes sense for Vidal to want to take the next step in his career. If he had gone to Madrid instead and made the same comments you'd still be pissed off even though the history argument would never be on your side.
Vidal is not a club legend by any stretch. He was an important piece of a revival for 4 years, but that's it...
He's not Del Piero, a Gigi, a Chiellini, a Trezeguet, a Nedved, a Marchisio, a Conte, a Cabrini, a Boniperti, a Sivori, a Charles, a Scirea, a Zoff, a Rossi, a Ferrara, a Baggio, a Platini, Gentile, a Combi, an Orsi, a Tardelli, a Bettega.... even a Pirlo, or a Zidane.
We have an epic list of club legends. Why the heck would anyone want Vidal associated with such legendary names? He doesn't belong at all one this list. As far as players responsible for our revival, let's talk about the players who stuck with us through hell, and became massive parts of the revival. Chiellini, Marchisio, Gigi. Those are legends, not Vidal.
- - - Updated - - -
Your argument absolutely falls apart if you use Milan as any metric at all. Because Milan is inarguably superior to Bayern Munich if you regard CL as the only real important part in classifying club histories. They have 2 more CL, and 7 less league titles. So how is Milan superior to Bayern, inferior to Juve, but Juve is inferior to Bayern?
Ridiculous premise. There is only 1 club in football that has a history inarguably better than Juventus. Real Madrid. And they were basically gifted everything for years by the Franco regime.
Absolute joke that any Juventus fan would even suggest Bayern "might" have a better history than us. You so overrate the CL beyond all rational reason. It's ridiculous. Especially seeing as Bayern won 3 of their CL back in the mid-70s, when CL wasn't important at all to most clubs. It was secondary to the league. Obviously. CL only took on it's massive importance in the 90s when it expanded. Add to this that for much of history 2nd-4th place teams in the league wouldn't even qualify for CL, so the "lesser" cup competitions in Europe were contested by top teams also means those competitions were very important, considering non-league winners win CL all the time nowadays. Guess what, Hist, Barca wouldn't have even been in the CL last year back in the 70s and 80s because Atletico won the league the previous season. Neither would the unstoppable Bayern Munich of 2012-13... Guess what, Dortmund won the league in 11-12, so Bayern would have played in the Europa back then. So yes, the secondary European competitions from the 70s, 80s and early 90s matter a ton. Only a fool would say otherwise. Two of the most dominant teams in recent memory wouldn't have even qualified to play in CL, which means there were fucking amazing teams playing the secondary cups when we won our 3 Europas/UEFA Cups. Don't be so ridiculous.
An objective measure according to your own standards of why Serie A is massively better historically than Bundesliga... 12 CL to 7 CL. Most of ours won since 1980. Bundesliga has won 3 CL since 1975. Serie A has 3 giants of football slugging it out. Bundesliga has been a 1 team show for most its history, there isn't a second historically great club from Bundesliga. It's a joke of a league for most its history, unlike Serie A.
FFS, calling Bayern's history better than ours is embarrassing for a Juventus fan.
He's not Del Piero, a Gigi, a Chiellini, a Trezeguet, a Nedved, a Marchisio, a Conte, a Cabrini, a Boniperti, a Sivori, a Charles, a Scirea, a Zoff, a Rossi, a Ferrara, a Baggio, a Platini, Gentile, a Combi, an Orsi, a Tardelli, a Bettega.... even a Pirlo, or a Zidane.
We have an epic list of club legends. Why the heck would anyone want Vidal associated with such legendary names? He doesn't belong at all one this list. As far as players responsible for our revival, let's talk about the players who stuck with us through hell, and became massive parts of the revival. Chiellini, Marchisio, Gigi. Those are legends, not Vidal.
- - - Updated - - -
Your argument absolutely falls apart if you use Milan as any metric at all. Because Milan is inarguably superior to Bayern Munich if you regard CL as the only real important part in classifying club histories. They have 2 more CL, and 7 less league titles. So how is Milan superior to Bayern, inferior to Juve, but Juve is inferior to Bayern?
Ridiculous premise. There is only 1 club in football that has a history inarguably better than Juventus. Real Madrid. And they were basically gifted everything for years by the Franco regime.
Absolute joke that any Juventus fan would even suggest Bayern "might" have a better history than us. You so overrate the CL beyond all rational reason. It's ridiculous. Especially seeing as Bayern won 3 of their CL back in the mid-70s, when CL wasn't important at all to most clubs. It was secondary to the league. Obviously. CL only took on it's massive importance in the 90s when it expanded. Add to this that for much of history 2nd-4th place teams in the league wouldn't even qualify for CL, so the "lesser" cup competitions in Europe were contested by top teams also means those competitions were very important, considering non-league winners win CL all the time nowadays. Guess what, Hist, Barca wouldn't have even been in the CL last year back in the 70s and 80s because Atletico won the league the previous season. Neither would the unstoppable Bayern Munich of 2012-13... Guess what, Dortmund won the league in 11-12, so Bayern would have played in the Europa back then. So yes, the secondary European competitions from the 70s, 80s and early 90s matter a ton. Only a fool would say otherwise. Two of the most dominant teams in recent memory wouldn't have even qualified to play in CL, which means there were fucking amazing teams playing the secondary cups when we won our 3 Europas/UEFA Cups. Don't be so ridiculous.
An objective measure according to your own standards of why Serie A is massively better historically than Bundesliga... 12 CL to 7 CL. Most of ours won since 1980. Bundesliga has won 3 CL since 1975. Serie A has 3 giants of football slugging it out. Bundesliga has been a 1 team show for most its history, there isn't a second historically great club from Bundesliga. It's a joke of a league for most its history, unlike Serie A.
FFS, calling Bayern's history better than ours is embarrassing for a Juventus fan.
A player who forces his way out of the club after 4 yrs for greener pastures and is brutally honest about it can't be a club legend. I don't blame Vidal for joining a better team and for wanting to increase his chances of winning the CL, I don't blame him for being honest and straightforward either, but he isn't a club legend.
No. What gave away the fact that you don't much about Zidane at Juve was when you said he forced his way out.
No. What gave away the fact that you don't much about Zidane at Juve was when you said he forced his way out.
ZIdane also didn't force his way out after 1 CL loss. He came back for a second loss, almost a 4th straight final for Juventus, and then a couple pretty bad seasons for Juventus as a club. Also turning into a pariah in Italy in 2000-01 after the Euro 2000 didn't help him want to remain in Italy.
He also didn't leave Juve for a bigger club at the time. Nor for money, as his salary was lower at Madrid, Perez said so. If you read interviews at the time, he left because he was ready for a new challenge and felt he was no longer playing at his best, and his wife apparently wanted to leave Turin and owned a cafe in Spain already. Agnelli also very publicly insulted Zidane in 1999 or 2000 iirc for being whipped by his wife when he admitted in an interview she wanted him to move away from Turin and Juve because she was homesick.
He also didn't leave Juve for a bigger club at the time. Nor for money, as his salary was lower at Madrid, Perez said so. If you read interviews at the time, he left because he was ready for a new challenge and felt he was no longer playing at his best, and his wife apparently wanted to leave Turin and owned a cafe in Spain already. Agnelli also very publicly insulted Zidane in 1999 or 2000 iirc for being whipped by his wife when he admitted in an interview she wanted him to move away from Turin and Juve because she was homesick.
Vidal is not a club legend by any stretch. He was an important piece of a revival for 4 years, but that's it...
He's not Del Piero, a Gigi, a Chiellini, a Trezeguet, a Nedved, a Marchisio, a Conte, a Cabrini, a Boniperti, a Sivori, a Charles, a Scirea, a Zoff, a Rossi, a Ferrara, a Baggio, a Platini, Gentile, a Combi, an Orsi, a Tardelli, a Bettega.... even a Pirlo, or a Zidane.
We have an epic list of club legends. Why the heck would anyone want Vidal associated with such legendary names? He doesn't belong at all one this list. As far as players responsible for our revival, let's talk about the players who stuck with us through hell, and became massive parts of the revival. Chiellini, Marchisio, Gigi. Those are legends, not Vidal.
- - - Updated - - -
Your argument absolutely falls apart if you use Milan as any metric at all. Because Milan is inarguably superior to Bayern Munich if you regard CL as the only real important part in classifying club histories. They have 2 more CL, and 7 less league titles. So how is Milan superior to Bayern, inferior to Juve, but Juve is inferior to Bayern?
Ridiculous premise. There is only 1 club in football that has a history inarguably better than Juventus. Real Madrid. And they were basically gifted everything for years by the Franco regime.
Absolute joke that any Juventus fan would even suggest Bayern "might" have a better history than us. You so overrate the CL beyond all rational reason. It's ridiculous. Especially seeing as Bayern won 3 of their CL back in the mid-70s, when CL wasn't important at all to most clubs. It was secondary to the league. Obviously. CL only took on it's massive importance in the 90s when it expanded. Add to this that for much of history 2nd-4th place teams in the league wouldn't even qualify for CL, so the "lesser" cup competitions in Europe were contested by top teams also means those competitions were very important, considering non-league winners win CL all the time nowadays. Guess what, Hist, Barca wouldn't have even been in the CL last year back in the 70s and 80s because Atletico won the league the previous season. Neither would the unstoppable Bayern Munich of 2012-13... Guess what, Dortmund won the league in 11-12, so Bayern would have played in the Europa back then. So yes, the secondary European competitions from the 70s, 80s and early 90s matter a ton. Only a fool would say otherwise. Two of the most dominant teams in recent memory wouldn't have even qualified to play in CL, which means there were $#@!ing amazing teams playing the secondary cups when we won our 3 Europas/UEFA Cups. Don't be so ridiculous.
An objective measure according to your own standards of why Serie A is massively better historically than Bundesliga... 12 CL to 7 CL. Most of ours won since 1980. Bundesliga has won 3 CL since 1975. Serie A has 3 giants of football slugging it out. Bundesliga has been a 1 team show for most its history, there isn't a second historically great club from Bundesliga. It's a joke of a league for most its history, unlike Serie A.
FFS, calling Bayern's history better than ours is embarrassing for a Juventus fan.
He's not Del Piero, a Gigi, a Chiellini, a Trezeguet, a Nedved, a Marchisio, a Conte, a Cabrini, a Boniperti, a Sivori, a Charles, a Scirea, a Zoff, a Rossi, a Ferrara, a Baggio, a Platini, Gentile, a Combi, an Orsi, a Tardelli, a Bettega.... even a Pirlo, or a Zidane.
We have an epic list of club legends. Why the heck would anyone want Vidal associated with such legendary names? He doesn't belong at all one this list. As far as players responsible for our revival, let's talk about the players who stuck with us through hell, and became massive parts of the revival. Chiellini, Marchisio, Gigi. Those are legends, not Vidal.
- - - Updated - - -
Your argument absolutely falls apart if you use Milan as any metric at all. Because Milan is inarguably superior to Bayern Munich if you regard CL as the only real important part in classifying club histories. They have 2 more CL, and 7 less league titles. So how is Milan superior to Bayern, inferior to Juve, but Juve is inferior to Bayern?
Ridiculous premise. There is only 1 club in football that has a history inarguably better than Juventus. Real Madrid. And they were basically gifted everything for years by the Franco regime.
Absolute joke that any Juventus fan would even suggest Bayern "might" have a better history than us. You so overrate the CL beyond all rational reason. It's ridiculous. Especially seeing as Bayern won 3 of their CL back in the mid-70s, when CL wasn't important at all to most clubs. It was secondary to the league. Obviously. CL only took on it's massive importance in the 90s when it expanded. Add to this that for much of history 2nd-4th place teams in the league wouldn't even qualify for CL, so the "lesser" cup competitions in Europe were contested by top teams also means those competitions were very important, considering non-league winners win CL all the time nowadays. Guess what, Hist, Barca wouldn't have even been in the CL last year back in the 70s and 80s because Atletico won the league the previous season. Neither would the unstoppable Bayern Munich of 2012-13... Guess what, Dortmund won the league in 11-12, so Bayern would have played in the Europa back then. So yes, the secondary European competitions from the 70s, 80s and early 90s matter a ton. Only a fool would say otherwise. Two of the most dominant teams in recent memory wouldn't have even qualified to play in CL, which means there were $#@!ing amazing teams playing the secondary cups when we won our 3 Europas/UEFA Cups. Don't be so ridiculous.
An objective measure according to your own standards of why Serie A is massively better historically than Bundesliga... 12 CL to 7 CL. Most of ours won since 1980. Bundesliga has won 3 CL since 1975. Serie A has 3 giants of football slugging it out. Bundesliga has been a 1 team show for most its history, there isn't a second historically great club from Bundesliga. It's a joke of a league for most its history, unlike Serie A.
FFS, calling Bayern's history better than ours is embarrassing for a Juventus fan.
Same deal. I remember the UEFA cups of the early-mid 90s from my childhood when some of the best teams in football were stuck in them.
It's a really modern mindset that values the Champion's League exclusively. A mindset that totally disregards the history of European football and the importance of other cups, and domestic league titles. We won Serie A titles over Champion's League winning teams, which says it all about value of the league title.
It's a really modern mindset that values the Champion's League exclusively. A mindset that totally disregards the history of European football and the importance of other cups, and domestic league titles. We won Serie A titles over Champion's League winning teams, which says it all about value of the league title.
Vidal: 'No Juve celebration'
By Football Italia staff
Arturo Vidal pledged not to celebrate if he scores for Bayern Munich against his old club Juventus. “I’m an opponent, not an enemy.”
The first leg in the Champions League Round of 16 kicks off on Tuesday at 19.45 GMT.
“I return to Turin as an opponent, not an enemy,” he assured in La Gazzetta dello Sport.
“I don’t know how I will be welcomed, but I hope the fans don’t jeer. I am excited about this game and it’ll be strange to see myself there with another jersey.
“If I score, then I won’t celebrate. In four years I learned and won a great deal. I left because it was an opportunity for me and a good move for Juve, so we were all happy.”
Vidal has been keeping a close eye on his former teammates from Germany.
“I had no doubts the Bianconeri would come back into the Scudetto race. Even when they were in 12th position I knew they’d get back to the top, because the squad is so strong and never gives up.
“I watch Juve on TV. In Munich I spend my whole time at home or playing football.”
Juventus reached the Champions League Final last season, but are Bayern Munich the favourites?
“I think we each have a 50-50 chance of qualification,” argued the Chile international.
“If I could take one of Juve’s players, it’d be Paul Pogba, as if he works hard then he can become among the best in the world.
“I’d also take Andrea Barzagli and Leonardo Bonucci. Paulo Dybala’s success is not really a surprise.”
Bayern were trailing at half-time against Darmstadt yesterday, but fought back to win 3-1 amid an injury crisis in defence.
“Struggling on a few crosses can happen, but even if we’re a fairly short team, we really fight to get the ball. Will I play in defence? No.”
There is also some tension off the field with Pep Guardiola announcing he’ll leave at the end of the season to take over at Manchester City.
“It was strange and we only learned about it by watching TV. Pep reminds me of Antonio Conte in the way he speaks and looks after the details.
“In any case, after him we’ll have a fine Coach like Carlo Ancelotti. For now we want to win everything so Pep can leave happy.
“Who is the stronger team between Bayern and Juve? We’ll see on Tuesday. I haven’t given my teammates any special advice, as they know how strong Juve are even without Vidal.”
By Football Italia staff
Arturo Vidal pledged not to celebrate if he scores for Bayern Munich against his old club Juventus. “I’m an opponent, not an enemy.”
The first leg in the Champions League Round of 16 kicks off on Tuesday at 19.45 GMT.
“I return to Turin as an opponent, not an enemy,” he assured in La Gazzetta dello Sport.
“I don’t know how I will be welcomed, but I hope the fans don’t jeer. I am excited about this game and it’ll be strange to see myself there with another jersey.
“If I score, then I won’t celebrate. In four years I learned and won a great deal. I left because it was an opportunity for me and a good move for Juve, so we were all happy.”
Vidal has been keeping a close eye on his former teammates from Germany.
“I had no doubts the Bianconeri would come back into the Scudetto race. Even when they were in 12th position I knew they’d get back to the top, because the squad is so strong and never gives up.
“I watch Juve on TV. In Munich I spend my whole time at home or playing football.”
Juventus reached the Champions League Final last season, but are Bayern Munich the favourites?
“I think we each have a 50-50 chance of qualification,” argued the Chile international.
“If I could take one of Juve’s players, it’d be Paul Pogba, as if he works hard then he can become among the best in the world.
“I’d also take Andrea Barzagli and Leonardo Bonucci. Paulo Dybala’s success is not really a surprise.”
Bayern were trailing at half-time against Darmstadt yesterday, but fought back to win 3-1 amid an injury crisis in defence.
“Struggling on a few crosses can happen, but even if we’re a fairly short team, we really fight to get the ball. Will I play in defence? No.”
There is also some tension off the field with Pep Guardiola announcing he’ll leave at the end of the season to take over at Manchester City.
“It was strange and we only learned about it by watching TV. Pep reminds me of Antonio Conte in the way he speaks and looks after the details.
“In any case, after him we’ll have a fine Coach like Carlo Ancelotti. For now we want to win everything so Pep can leave happy.
“Who is the stronger team between Bayern and Juve? We’ll see on Tuesday. I haven’t given my teammates any special advice, as they know how strong Juve are even without Vidal.”
