Antonio Conte (55 Viewers)

[Hist]

He wasn't even considered one of the best CBs here while he showed incredible consistency, that is until last year when started to generate more interest abroad and was selected in the CL best 11 (group stages). He was always underrated player, unlike Luiz or Pique. His contract was expiring, he wanted to return to Italy, 30 yo, hence the price.

1) top 3 finish, at least.
2)he isn't WC b2b, Pirlo and Barza needed more stable environment but potential was always there. This is what you don't get, mediocre players don't turn into WC.

So for number (2)(a) if the question was worded (as good as he got to be under Conte (world class or not I dont care), your answer would be yes he would have made that improvement anyway?

And I take it your answers for the rest of number 2 are all yes (or very close to yes)?

So to summarize your view: Manicini/Benitez/Pellegrini could have took us to top 3 and made our players perform to the level that they did in 2011/12 (or really close), only due to the coach's tactical inferiority or whatever compared to Conte we would have finished 2nd or 3rd, instead of 1st and undefeated.

I think we now see the fundamental disagreement thats between us from which our differences about Conte and even Simeone come out. You see performance on the pitch as largely down to the quality of the players (say 85%) and slightly sensitive to coach quality (say 15%), I assign different weights (60% players 40% coach) or so. Thats why I give more credit to Conte and Simeone than you do, even though we all agree thats its a mutual effort. Its just that I see the contribution of a coach to that mutual effort to be larger than you take it to be.

I have no idea how to bridge that difference on a fundamental level. At best I would point towards teams who took a sudden substantial hike in performence when the players are largely the same from previous seasons and the coach change is the difference (Ranieri?). But it wont be conclusive and its very rare that a coach change is the only real change after a bad season. So it wont ever be a control environment. Anyway thanks for the answer.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[ZoSo]

He wasn't even considered one of the best CBs here while he showed incredible consistency, that is until last year when started to generate more interest abroad and was selected in the CL best 11 (group stages).

that's just plain wrong.

 

[Juve_fanatic]

Disregarding what Conte is a crime suitable for death sentence and permanent ban from this forum or any other forum Juventus related or even football related. Everything we are today, we owe it to Conte and what he brought to this Juventus. Being butthurt is one thing, but talking nonsense is a different thing.

 

[Vlad]

Disregarding what Conte is a crime suitable for death sentence and permanent ban from this forum or any other forum Juventus related or even football related. Everything we are today, we owe it to Conte and what he brought to this Juventus. Being butthurt is one thing, but talking nonsense is a different thing.

:facepalm:

 

[ZoSo]

:facepalm:

fake fan

 

[Juve_fanatic]

:facepalm:

Everything we are today, since 2006 onwards and all the success that followed, i mean....

 

[Vlad]

fake fan

fanboys

- - - Updated - - -

Everything we are today, since 2006 onwards and all the success that followed, i mean....

Nah, that's bs mate. We don't owe him any more than he owes us. We propelled his career, granted he did great on both occasions, but to atribute our success to one man is not what this club is all about. We're far bigger than that.

 

[Juve_fanatic]

fanboys

- - - Updated - - -



Nah, that's bs mate. We don't owe him any more than he owes us. We propelled his career, granted he did great on both occasions, but to atribute our success to one man is not what this club is all about. We're far bigger than that.

Nope...our ego is bigger than that so we dont admit it. Im not atributing our success to just one man, come one, but a large part of what we are today is Conte's doing. Sure, the success of one team consists of the players, the menagement, the medical team, the coaches, the groundsman, the people that wash and iron the jerseys ect, ect.....but this is in the largest part, Conte's doing whether you like it or not.

 

[zizinho]

Yeah thats why we had to pay so much to get him and the football world was jealous we managed to land one of the best CBs in the game and the best Italian CB at the time. Wolfsburg tried their best to keep him because they obviously saw him as an impenetrable wall. The ranking was thiago silva, vidic and Barzagli. Its obvious that his performance level at Juve was just a continuation of what he used to do in Germany. His game didnt get raised multiple levels in 2011/12.

You keep dodging the point. Answer these questions and I will leave you alone forever on this subject. I won't even dispute your answers. I think we will understand each other better instead of strawmanning each others points.

1) If Pellegrini, Benitez, Prandelli or Mancini were given this squad, do you think their Juve would have won the league undefeated? won the league at all? finished top 3? or worse? (Select one)

2) If we hired that level of coach, do you think (a) marchisio would have become a world class B2B? (b) Barzagli would have become a top 3-5 defender in the world, (c) Bonucci would have become as good as he did under Conte (I realize he is even better now)? (d) Pirlo would have regained his best form? Answer in Yes or No for each.

My answers:
(1) Worse

(2) No to all of them. Only a brilliant coach could have done that transformation. All known brilliant coaches were out of budget. We at best would have gotten a Pellegrini/Manicini/Benitez/Prandelli level coach (good but not great in anyway).


I'd like to know what others think too

top3 definitively. scudetto the following year

 

[Cerval]

top3 definitively. scudetto the following year

With the mentality the team had back then before Conte I doubt it would have been this easy

 

[Seven]

Born winner and a true Juventino. I can only wish him good luck at Chelsea, even though I've always disliked that club. Would much rather want Conte's Chelsea to be successful in England than Mou & Pogba's Manchester, that's for damn sure.

In CL I don't wish you good luck Antonio, sorry

The best part about him managing Chelsea is that he'll improve the tactical awareness of Hazard, Courtois and Batshuayi .

Some of you need to get your head out of Conte's ass and realize that Juve was never about one guy. We had great history before Conte and chances that we would remain on the outskirts for considerable time were slim and if you consider the state of Italian football and general lack of competiton, then none.

Of course Juventus was about more than Conte. But he played for us for a really long time and led our team to success as our manager. Why the fuck would you not acknowledge that?

 

[Hist]

The best part about him managing Chelsea is that he'll improve the tactical awareness of Hazard, Courtois and Batshuayi .



Of course Juventus was about more than Conte. But he played for us for a really long time and led our team to success as our manager. Why the fuck would you not acknowledge that?

he does acknowledge that. No one here thinks that Conte added nothing nor does anyone think Conte did it all by himself. Everyone acknowledges that our return to the top was a group effort that involved contributions from a lot of people. The disagreement is on the size of contribution of each to that comeback. From my perspective they overstate the role of the foundation and under state Conte's. From their perspective, I do the reverse. Thats why I think we wouldnt have finished top 3 had we signed a Mancini while they think we would have definitely finished top 3 and then scudetto a year later. The difference between Conte and Mancini for them is one made us win on the first try undefeated while the other would have finished 2nd or 3rd and then won the next year. So they definitely still see Conte as important to our success. In their view he accelerated the process of coming back but any good coach would have brought us back just slower.

I think only an exceptional coach would have brought us back at all. I think we very well could have regressed like our competitors did. We were already 7th twice. Milan and Inter would have eventually joined us down there or if they won the leagues still, Serie A would have turned to complete shit.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

It was a group effort no doubt but the change in MENTALITY was the most significant and thats mainly due to Conte. And why wouldnt anyone be proud of that its like they forgot Conte was our captain on the pitch. That man has done so much for Juve which far outweighs whatever "negatives" he committed against Juve.

 

[.zero]

The level of trolling in this thread is flabbergasting

 

[Bianconero81]

I think Allegri is a better manager, and I don't like Conte's rigidity and lack of flexibility, but to deny that what he accomplished here is nothing short of spectacular and legendary is ungratefulness at its finest. We came back from Serie B in 07, and since then have had the useless loser fucktard Del Neri as coach, the likable but ultimately not good enough Ranieri as coach, Poor old Ferrara, and Zac the Hack, but none managed to accomplish or achieve anything. Conte made us relevant again (at least in Italy) and we owe him gratitude for that.

 

[.zero]

Quite the backhanded compliment if I've ever come across one

 

[king Ale]

I don't think anybody denies that what he did was legendary. My earlier point was that i refuse to believe he was a savior without whom we would have been irrelevant (i.e., Milan) today. Can I prove it? No. Can you prove we would have ended up with the likes of Del Neri forever? No. So it's just an opinion difference. In my opinion, we would have always gotten back on track, if not with Conte, with someone else, yes someone as good as Conte. Also, when someone important leaves, people take it differently. I normally let go of those who choose to leave, my affection for them ends the moment they step out. Depending on how they leave i may even dislike them a little bit (Pogba, Vidal, Conte, Zambrotta, etc).

Every once in a while, when i'm bored and done executing people, i will come here and say how i lost respect for this guy, and how i still want him to win the EPL

 

[.zero]

Wow. How courageous and insightful

 

[king Ale]

Wow. How courageous and insightful

Not only that, I also know how to finish a sentence. Furthermore, I'm capable of holding a conversation. You should watch and learn

 

[Elvin]

It was a group effort no doubt but the change in MENTALITY was the most significant and thats mainly due to Conte. And why wouldnt anyone be proud of that its like they forgot Conte was our captain on the pitch. That man has done so much for Juve which far outweighs whatever "negatives" he committed against Juve.

but where did Conte himself get that mentality in the first place? That's right, from Juventus.