Antonio Conte (184 Viewers)

How would you rate Conte's (dis)appointment?

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zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
Under Conte, not before Conte.

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Being well managed may mean different things to different people. You could be well managed from an economic point of view or well managed from a sporting point of view, they're not mutually exclusive however. Before Conte arrived, the same management had spent big and ended up in seventh position. Another season like that and I can assure you, our money ball policy wouldn't have ended up looking as good as it did.

And the change of formation had nothing to do with the results this season? The team just magically clicked when Allegri moved back to a 352? Cmon mate. We went from talking about plasma TVs and Pastores and Agueros to loaning Boriellos and Anelkas. There's a good chance that would've taken much longer than you think, if it wasn't for a man who played a primary part in re-injecting all of that ethos post calciopoli, when we had not just lost our mentality but our identity and character too.
That same management took over one season before Conte arrived. If you think they can magically fix the mess the previous idiots left in one mercato then think again.

This 352 is nothing like Contes, appart from Buffon and the back 3, we play completely different now. So now after giving Conte credit for everything that happened in 11/12 you want to give him credit for Allegris sucess 2 years after he left because hes playing the same formation? Great.

And i already said Conte deserves credit for restoring our winning mentality but you for some reason seem to think he deserves all or most of the credit. He has received 4 new starters in the summer, 2 have arrived 6 months before he joined. So its not like he turned a bunch of losers and Inserted the winning mentality into them. + he got Caceres in winter too who started on the left a lot that halfseason. Thats a new Team completely. Add to that a broke inter, the favorites that was Milan handicaped by injuries and you get what happened. It was a great coach taking over a big club, receiving some great players and turning them into a team. And that's what he deserves credit for. With a different coach there is a good chance we wouldnt Win in 2012, but there is no way we would not become a winning team the next season considering Milan selfdestructed and Napoli was a one man team
 

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Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
Under Conte, not before Conte.

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Being well managed may mean different things to different people. You could be well managed from an economic point of view or well managed from a sporting point of view, they're not mutually exclusive however. Before Conte arrived, the same management had spent big and ended up in seventh position. Another season like that and I can assure you, our money ball policy wouldn't have ended up looking as good as it did.

And the change of formation had nothing to do with the results this season? The team just magically clicked when Allegri moved back to a 352? Cmon mate. We went from talking about plasma TVs and Pastores and Agueros to loaning Boriellos and Anelkas. There's a good chance that would've taken much longer than you think, if it wasn't for a man who played a primary part in re-injecting all of that ethos post calciopoli, when we had not just lost our mentality but our identity and character too.
Just stop this retarded discussion :sergoi:
We're on our way to win the fifth straight league title and second cup title. We played a CL final and this year played two even games with the potential CL winner. We did this with two different coaches. If this is not prove enough to you that this club's management aren't lucky, but in fact know what they're doing, then you're clueless. We have one of the best managements in European football.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Just stop this retarded discussion :sergoi:
We're on our way to win the fifth straight league title and second cup title. We played a CL final and this year played two even games with the potential CL winner. We did this with two different coaches. If this is not prove enough to you that this club's management aren't lucky, but in fact know what they're doing, then you're clueless. We have one of the best managements in European football.
THE best imo
 

j0ker

Capo di tutti capi
Jan 5, 2006
22,892
Just stop this retarded discussion :sergoi:
We're on our way to win the fifth straight league title and second cup title. We played a CL final and this year played two even games with the potential CL winner. We did this with two different coaches. If this is not prove enough to you that this club's management aren't lucky, but in fact know what they're doing, then you're clueless. We have one of the best managements in European football.
:tup:
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
Just stop this retarded discussion :sergoi:
We're on our way to win the fifth straight league title and second cup title. We played a CL final and this year played two even games with the potential CL winner. We did this with two different coaches. If this is not prove enough to you that this club's management aren't lucky, but in fact know what they're doing, then you're clueless. We have one of the best managements in European football.

Please don't go on another tangent. This is not about the club management. It's about Conte getting due credit who will be a recognised figure well after this cycle, largely because of the impact he had on the team, and that impact had an even bigger bearing because of what he achieved in his first season, which wasn't about talent or fancy football. It was about bringing back a mentality that nobody else could've gotten back, including the club management.

Simple as.

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Wait. Please don't tell me that credit is being given to Conte for what is happening this year.
Credit is being given to Conte for laying the foundation to build our successes on. And a lot of it is dating back to what he achieved in his first season with us where he won against the odds. But somehow that means we don't have one of the best management's in football. It amazes me that people have forgotten what we went through in the years post Cacliopoli and before Conte.

No individual is bigger than the club, but there are people who have worked at the club, whose work will outlive their time at the club. Conte is one such person. I simply don't see how that is not true.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
Please don't go on another tangent. This is not about the club management. It's about Conte getting due credit who will be a recognised figure well after this cycle, largely because of the impact he had on the team, and that impact had an even bigger bearing because of what he achieved in his first season, which wasn't about talent or fancy football. It was about bringing back a mentality that nobody else could've gotten back, including the club management.

Simple as.
Lol. You contradict yourself. Conte didn't bring back a mentality to the club, because then it would've been gone as soon as he left. As soon as you realize that everything happened in a symbioses, your meaningless fight will stop. The problem is that some of you interpret the criticism of him as criticism of his merits.
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
That same management took over one season before Conte arrived. If you think they can magically fix the mess the previous idiots left in one mercato then think again.
To fix it all in one mercato would've been magic but to 'apparently fix' it in their second summer would've been par for the course? Even that would have been hard. Of course, I don't deny we were in bad shape before they came. But do you honestly think the management expected to go from seventh to first in one season? Their aim if you remember was CL qualification. That was one of the main reasons Del Neri was appointed and chosen by Marrotta in his first season at the club, because they had just achieved that with Sampdoria. But with Conte coming here and winning in his first season itself, it threw the managements plans a bit out of shape, because now they had to sustain the success had Conte achieved. He achieved a miracle and I'm grateful to him for that.

And i already said Conte deserves credit for restoring our winning mentality but you for some reason seem to think he deserves all or most of the credit. He has received 4 new starters in the summer, 2 have arrived 6 months before he joined. So its not like he turned a bunch of losers and Inserted the winning mentality into them. + he got Caceres in winter too who started on the left a lot that halfseason. Thats a new Team completely. Add to that a broke inter, the favorites that was Milan handicaped by injuries and you get what happened. It was a great coach taking over a big club, receiving some great players and turning them into a team. And that's what he deserves credit for. With a different coach there is a good chance we wouldnt Win in 2012, but there is no way we would not become a winning team the next season considering Milan selfdestructed and Napoli was a one man team
Again, I think you're putting a bit too much emphasis on the kind of players that came through the mercato. It doesn't matter even if we got Maradona out of retirement or got Molinaro and had him come play for us. The important factor is uniting the team with an identity and integrity of purpose underlined by the same mentality that he had learnt at his time at the club. He was the perfect catalyst that gave the team the spark and belief without which they were nothing. Look at Leicester for example, they don't have the best names on paper compared to their more illustrious rivals, but they have something far more intangible, strength in unity, to sacrifice for the other. It is a very special ethos that most teams find hard to come by.

And the irony of it all, is that I think Allegri is a better tactician than Conte, while Conte was a better man manager. Where we are today, with a higher quality of personnel, is better handled by someone like Allegri, for the expression of their footballing style. But, what makes them win matches when they're in tight positions is not just quality, it's also mentality and a work ethic, which was the hallmark of Conte's work with us.

Again, in my mind I don't expect Conte to be the only name synonymous with our success 100 years from this discussion. But I do think people will remember his legacy for a far greater time than the three years he spent with us, because he helped the team find what it had lost, the very essence of our DNA: the grinta.

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Lol. You contradict yourself. Conte didn't bring back a mentality to the club, because then it would've been gone as soon as he left. As soon as you realize that everything happened in a symbioses, your meaningless fight will stop. The problem is that some of you interpret the criticism of him as criticism of his merits.
I care four fucks about people criticising him, but anyone who isn't grateful for the work that he's done deserves to order some humble pie at the finest 100 euro restaurant there is. Oh, and for the record, the essence of mentality is that it outlives most tangibles, such as players and coaches. It's like the players say themselves, it's the air that you breathe at the club. The foundations for which post calciopoli, were laid in large part by someone who understood and inhaled the same air as a player.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
To fix it all in one mercato would've been magic but to 'apparently fix' it in their second summer would've been par for the course? Even that would have been hard. Of course, I don't deny we were in bad shape before they came. But do you honestly think the management expected to go from seventh to first in one season? Their aim if you remember was CL qualification. That was one of the main reasons Del Neri was appointed and chosen by Marrotta in his first season at the club, because they had just achieved that with Sampdoria. But with Conte coming here and winning in his first season itself, it threw the managements plans a bit out of shape, because now they had to sustain the success had Conte achieved. He achieved a miracle and I'm grateful to him for that.
"apparently fix", lol. you hate Marotta so much you find it hard to give him credit for anything dont you?

lets take a look at our team at the end of 2010:
Buffon, Chimenti, Manninger
Chiellini, Caceres, Cannavaro, Grosso, Legrotaglie, Zebina, Molinaro, PDC, Grygera
Melo, Hasan, Marchisio, Camoranesi, Poulsen, Sissoko, Candreva, Diego, Tiago
Del Piero, Amauri, Iaquinta, Trezeguet, Giovinco

and after summer mercato 2011:
Buffon, Storari, Manninger
Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli, PDC, Lichtsteiner, Grosso (+ Caceres in winter)
Marchisio, Pirlo, Vidal, Pepe, Krasic, Giaccherini, Elia, Estigarribia (+ Padoin in winter)
Matri, Quagliarella, Vucinic, Del Piero, Borriello

apart from these 8 guys (only 3 of which remained starters), he changed the team completely in 2 mercatos. so he did "fix it". most of the players he brought in were much superior to the players we had when he took over. the team Conte had was top 3 in the league easily. not every coach would have won the title with that team in our 1st season (most good coaches would finish top 3 that season and win the title the very next) so thats something he deserves credit for. but in no way would we not become a superpower again if it wasnt for him. This club is too much superiorly run compared to others in Italy, and a lot of foreign clubs, to not rise to the top again so quickly.


Again, I think you're putting a bit too much emphasis on the kind of players that came through the mercato. It doesn't matter even if we got Maradona out of retirement or got Molinaro and had him come play for us. The important factor is uniting the team with an identity and integrity of purpose underlined by the same mentality that he had learnt at his time at the club. He was the perfect catalyst that gave the team the spark and belief without which they were nothing. Look at Leicester for example, they don't have the best names on paper compared to their more illustrious rivals, but they have something far more intangible, strength in unity, to sacrifice for the other. It is a very special ethos that most teams find hard to come by.
Yes, creating a team out of the great players he received was ONE OF the most important things to do. Still, you can't win the title with players that arent quality, no matter how good a motivator you are. And most of these players went on to win another 3 titles and reach a CL final which tells you a lot about how good they were. So it does matter, a lot in fact, what kind of players he had at his disposal. And don't compare us to Leicester, thats a 1 in 100 years situation. Lets compare us to Chelsea for example. Mourinho got back and Inserted his winning mentality into the players, they won the title in his 1st (full) season and the very next season they crumble. Why? Because you have to do it season after season, and that's exactly why our comeback this season was not because we won a title with Conte 4 years ago, it was because Allegri was capable of motivating the team and creating the winning mentality within them when things went bad.

And the irony of it all, is that I think Allegri is a better tactician than Conte, while Conte was a better man manager. Where we are today, with a higher quality of personnel, is better handled by someone like Allegri, for the expression of their footballing style. But, what makes them win matches when they're in tight positions is not just quality, it's also mentality and a work ethic, which was the hallmark of Conte's work with us.

Again, in my mind I don't expect Conte to be the only name synonymous with our success 100 years from this discussion. But I do think people will remember his legacy for a far greater time than the three years he spent with us, because he helped the team find what it had lost, the very essence of our DNA: the grinta.

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I care four $#@!s about people criticising him, but anyone who isn't grateful for the work that he's done deserves to order some humble pie at the finest 100 euro restaurant there is. Oh, and for the record, the essence of mentality is that it outlives most tangibles, such as players and coaches. It's like the players say themselves, it's the air that you breathe at the club. The foundations for which post calciopoli, were laid in large part by someone who understood and inhaled the same air as a player.
Thats something I can mostly agree with, and the game is about to start so i don't want to go further into this
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
24,015
...
"apparently fix", lol. you hate Marotta so much you find it hard to give him credit for anything dont you?
Fantastic post, but it's basically this.

The basic assumption of Conte's fanboys is that he was given scrubs to work with and managed to win the title, which is laughable.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Licht, Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio, are players from Conte's first season and all played in the final of the CL last year. So they can't be this bad, can they?

Good coach wouldn't be able to accomplish anything notable with retarded mgt and would end up looking clueless. B&G and Allegri's spell in Milan are rather good example. Even if Allegri leaves one day, I'm confident someone else will do admirable job of replacing him, bacause he'll have mgt that has proven capable of bringing great players every summer.
 

Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,985
Conte got a Vidal who was entering his prime and that Pirlo´s first year was simply stellar and was the last of his prime.

Those 2 players were pivotal for us. And the rest did their job definitely. But what Conte did that first season is unquestionable. That was a season i enjoyed so much since he was a winner and guided our lost players to become winners.

After that season, nothing was the same with conte... but that first scudetto season was nothing short of magical.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Conte got a Vidal who was entering his prime and that Pirlo´s first year was simply stellar and was the last of his prime.

Those 2 players were pivotal for us. And the rest did their job definitely. But what Conte did that first season is unquestionable. That was a season i enjoyed so much since he was a winner and guided our lost players to become winners.

After that season, nothing was the same with conte... but that first scudetto season was nothing short of magical.
And thats exactly what we should give him credit for. people can debate about anything, but that fact is set in stone
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,608
Fantastic post, but it's basically this.

The basic assumption of Conte's fanboys is that he was given scrubs to work with and managed to win the title, which is laughable.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Licht, Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio, are players from Conte's first season and all played in the final of the CL last year. So they can't be this bad, can they?

Good coach wouldn't be able to accomplish anything notable with retarded mgt and would end up looking clueless. B&G and Allegri's spell in Milan are rather good example. Even if Allegri leaves one day, I'm confident someone else will do admirable job of replacing him, bacause he'll have mgt that has proven capable of bringing great players every summer.
No strawman.

What we do say is that the players he had were either mediocre (Matri, Vucinic, Quags, Pepe, Giach, Cacares, Padoin, DP), or poor (De Ceglie, Estigbarria, borriello, Elia, Krasic, Grosso) or veterans that need some serious revival (Barza, Pirlo) or talented players that never had a top level season before (Marchisio, Bonucci and maybe Chiello). Thats the fundamental premise. Take that mix and give me an undefeated season against an Allegri team that is also an Ibra team and you have something remarkable. These are not scrubs. There is immense potential in veterans who need revival as well as in talented youngsters that needed guidance. But these are not winners either and they need some great coaching.

Vidal, Gigi and Licht were the only players he had who were obviously quality and we knew that they were talented and in form before the season started. Everyone else was either a limited player or a question mark. We all knew who Pirlo was, but whether he can recover from a terrible injuries ridden year was a question mark. We knew Barzagli used to be solid a long time ago, but whether we can get him to be rejuvenated is a question mark. We knew Bonbon and Marchisio had talent but they were poor thus far and never expressed it consistently.

Conte rejuvenated Barza and Pirlo and pushed Marchisio, Bonbon, and Chiello to the next level. This could have turned out differently under a different coach. Simeone today is succeeding with Torres where many top coaches failed. Allegri failed with Pirlo before we got him. Milan has been failing at getting Shaarawy to perform since Allegri left (Monaco failed too) and now Spaletti is doing it right. Lamela failed to perform to his best until Pochettino came along. Mou failed to get anything out of Cuadrado, and Salah but Juve and Roma are succeeding. Hiddink has so far failed at getting Fabregas, Pedro, Oscar, Hazard to perform and Mou failed before him. There are so many examples.

The squad also had no bench in the middle and at the back and had no left side at all neither in attack (esti/Elia) nor in defense (Grosso/De Ceglie). So yes Marotta did brilliantly in identifying and recruiting players (and recruiting Conte himself) that he believed Juve can restore to their old best levels. But it was far from an easy job and most top coaches would have failed at doing what Conte did with this group.

Reviving seemingly finished players, pushing talented youngsters to the next level, integrating a large number of new signings at once, rotating using a very small bench, getting 100% out of mediocre players... thats what he did and we didn't lose a single match in winning that title, something our Galacticos teams could never do and we can't do even until now.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
No strawman.

What we do say is that the players he had were either mediocre (Matri, Vucinic, Quags, Pepe, Giach, Cacares, Padoin, DP), or poor (De Ceglie, Estigbarria, borriello, Elia, Krasic, Grosso) or veterans that need some serious revival (Barza, Pirlo) or talented players that never had a top level season before (Marchisio, Bonucci and maybe Chiello). Thats the fundamental premise. Take that mix and give me an undefeated season against an Allegri team that is also an Ibra team and you have something remarkable. These are not scrubs. There is immense potential in veterans who need revival as well as in talented youngsters that needed guidance. But these are not winners either and they need some great coaching.

Vidal, Gigi and Licht were the only players he had who were obviously quality and we knew that they were talented and in form before the season started. Everyone else was either a limited player or a question mark. We all knew who Pirlo was, but whether he can recover from a terrible injuries ridden year was a question mark. We knew Barzagli used to be solid a long time ago, but whether we can get him to be rejuvenated is a question mark. We knew Bonbon and Marchisio had talent but they were poor thus far and never expressed it consistently.

Conte rejuvenated Barza and Pirlo and pushed Marchisio, Bonbon, and Chiello to the next level. This could have turned out differently under a different coach. Simeone today is succeeding with Torres where many top coaches failed. Allegri failed with Pirlo before we got him. Milan has been failing at getting Shaarawy to perform since Allegri left (Monaco failed too) and now Spaletti is doing it right. Lamela failed to perform to his best until Pochettino came along. Mou failed to get anything out of Cuadrado, and Salah but Juve and Roma are succeeding. Hiddink has so far failed at getting Fabregas, Pedro, Oscar, Hazard to perform and Mou failed before him. There are so many examples.

The squad also had no bench in the middle and at the back and had no left side at all neither in attack (esti/Elia) nor in defense (Grosso/De Ceglie). So yes Marotta did brilliantly in identifying and recruiting players (and recruiting Conte himself) that he believed Juve can restore to their old best levels. But it was far from an easy job and most top coaches would have failed at doing what Conte did with this group.

Reviving seemingly finished players, pushing talented youngsters to the next level, integrating a large number of new signings at once, rotating using a very small bench, getting 100% out of mediocre players... thats what he did and we didn't lose a single match in winning that title, something our Galacticos teams could never do and we can't do even until now.
20 Serie A goals in a such mediocrity. That team was fine for Serie A.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,608
20 Serie A goals in a such mediocrity. That team was fine for Serie A.
what 20 goals?

If you get each and everyone one of them to perform at their highest level, got lucky to go without injuries to your midfield and central defenders then yes its enough as they themselves demonstrated. Luckily MVP were never really injured nor did BBC and our strikers had a great season (by their standards).

I feel that people tend to undervalue competing with an Allegri team in the league let alone an Ibra team. They also undervalue how difficult it is to integrate that many players at once. They undervalue how difficult it is to revive or to make that many players give 100% after being underwhelming for a year in Pirlo's case and for many years in BBC, Vucinic and Marchisio's case. The thing they undervalue the most is how difficult it is to win any league let alone Serie A undefeated and on the first try. We have not done the same ever since even PSG couldnt do it in Ligue 1 where they are levels above everyone else.

Marotta gave Conte players with unquestionable potential but Conte took that to the maximum level in no time. Marotta haters tend to undervalue the quality of the players while Conte haters tend to undervalue how difficult it is to get these players to reach such a high level as a team immediately without a single loss. Marotta haters also forget that it was him that hired Conte and then Allegri when no one else would and both of which were insanely good coach signings. Marotta signed not just many players with potential on a tight budget, he also signed coaches with great potential. He is as close to a perfect director as anyone can ask for.
 

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