Andrea "Il Bruco Brutto" Agnelli (60 Viewers)

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,834
Agnelli is not a guy who dwells in the moment. He sees far ahead unlike basically every other Italian executive. His thoughts on Atalanta are not based on jealousy or anything like that, it's just a recent example of a team that goes straight into the group stage because they're 4th in a big league. I don't think he actually thinks twice about a club like Atalanta in any other context.

He does compare them to a club like Roma (who beat Barca in the UCL and now has shit financials) and also questions whether Atalanta (or some other team that finishes 4th, it just happens to be them) should go straight into the UCL group stage. Maybe it's unfair that Roma is not in the UCL when they are generally strong, or something like that. Basically they had a bad year and are heavily penalized.

I think in a round about way, he is questioning whether the UCL system itself is optimal but rather that some type of franchise system without relegation/promotion would be better.

I think as a businessman he's basically thinking about the American sports model.
 

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Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
14,300
I see where he is coming from on his Atalanta comments, he has made similar in the past. I'm not sure whether he actually believes it or is an element of self-preservation in trying to push for a change in European football to protect the 'big clubs' to avoid us being in a situation like AC Milan.

As much as it could protect us I just don't agree with it. You earn your right to play in Europe, Atalanta deserve their chance. It would be hugely unfair if AC were there instead of them.

If he wants to avoid 'one season wonders' maybe he will push for some sort of average points over two seasons to qualify. Even that would be better than qualifying because you used to be a good team.
 
Apr 29, 2006
3,158
AA should speak less. It really hurts when lawlessness is ripe and you are not the baddest bully in the yard anymore. ECA is turning into a cartel and should be treated as such. American model? Thanks, but no thanks. If Juventus is a burden for the family - they should sell it and live with the PR consequences. I am sure Italians will be more than happy to sell another park to a family that doesn't have the means to support this team.

Andrea, don't act the fool. Socialism for the rich, wild capitalism for the Atalanta's of this world.
 

tosh_rose

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2010
1,465
MARTIN SAMUEL COLUMN: Juventus chief Andrea Agnelli is a creeping, crawling, self-serving, protectionist snake. He is a man without a single cell of feeling for sport or sporting integrity. His plan will kill off football
  • Andrea Agnelli's proposed plan will destroy the Champions League and football
  • His stupidity would kill a sport that belongs to the working men and women
  • Agnelli and his allies are frightened little men with plans to make football dull

A series on Netflix this month will make clear the role of Scottish footballers in the formation of what is termed The English Game. Written by Julian Fellowes, creator of Downton Abbey, :lol: it will chart the rise of football in England, including the enormous contribution of what were known as the Scottish Professors. It was the influence of players imported from north of the border that made football the sport we recognise today.

England’s fledgling game was about dribbling, but Scotland’s players passed. There were seven of them in Preston’s Invincibles, while Liverpool fielded an entire team of Scots in 1892 and Lord Kinnaird played in nine FA Cup finals between 1873 and 1883, winning five of them. The debt English football owes to the first professionals from Scotland is incalculable.Doesn’t count for much these days, though, does it? Now Scotland are in the doldrums, this brilliant reimagining of the sport doesn’t amount to a place at the World Cup finals. Unquestionably, Scotland have been left behind. Others have taken the philosophy of the Scottish Professors on. And that’s it. Tough. That’s the point of sport. It’s a meritocracy.

Just last June will seem a lifetime away if Tottenham and Liverpool exit the Champions League this week. Their status as the 2019 finalists will be rightly irrelevant. Nothing burns through history quicker than the evolution of sporting competition. The game in Madrid on June 1 last year has about as much bearing on events in Leipzig and Liverpool this week as the matches that took place in the final decades of the 19th century.

What makes sport so endlessly compelling — the best reality television, because there truly is not even the germ of a script — can be found in the shiver of anticipation on the first day of the season. The grass freshly shorn, the lines brightly painted, the summer sun shining and anything possible. On August 8, 2015, Leicester walked out at the King Power Stadium to face Sunderland. Their fans had no clue they were about to watch the first game of that season’s champions. Had anyone suggested so, they would have thought them insane. Yet, technically, it was possible. Anything is possible. That is all you have to believe. And if it is not possible, sport is dead.

That Andrea Agnelli is the president of the European Clubs’ Association says all that needs to be known about the creeping, crawling, self-serving, protectionist snakes at the elite end of that organisation. He is a man without a single cell of feeling for sport or sporting integrity.

He has lucked out by birth into control of one of football’s great dynasties — Juventus. And from this position of enormous good fortune, he wants to destroy the greatest club competition in the world and football as it is known and loved. Not spoil, or harm, or even ruin. Destroy. If the type of structure Agnelli proposes came to pass, the Champions League as a competition of interest would be no more. Domestic football would be as good as finished. His greed, his stupidity, would kill a sport that belongs not to entitled children of trust funds and inheritance, but to the working men and women across Europe and beyond.

Our game, our fun — not his desperate revenue stream. Our sliver of pleasure, not his security blanket, because he has messed up the financial model of his own business in Serie A. Agnelli is a mediocre mind in a world increasingly full of them, so it stands to reason it is mediocrity he wishes to reward and enshrine.

Agnelli spoke at the Financial Times Business of Football Summit in London last week, when he came up with his plan to preserve bad football.

‘I have great respect for everything Atalanta are doing, but without international history and thanks to just one great season, they had direct access to the primary European club competition,’ said Agnelli. ‘Is that right or not? Then I think of Roma, who contributed in recent years to maintaining Italy’s ranking. They had one bad season and are out, with all the consequent damage to them financially. The point is how we balance the contribution to European football and the performance of a single year.’

In other words, the closed shop. That is what he wants for the Champions League. To seal it from meritocracy, the same handful of wealthy elite clubs playing the same repetitive fixtures year after year, regardless of their quality. Roma have been such a fixture in Europe’s premier club competition that they qualified for it once between 1955 and 2001. Yet their place should be preserved in perpetuity, at the expense of better, smaller clubs, because of a moment in time?

Why can’t Atalanta grow to be a more admirable force in Italian football than Roma have been for decades? They just need the chance and this freedom terrifies their supposed betters. It is a myth that the elite deserve anything they cannot earn for themselves, every year, starting anew. Roma’s contribution to European football is a myth, too. It is zilch. Their European honours list amounts to a competition UEFA don’t even count any more, the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in 1960-61. Newcastle have won a European trophy more recently.

So what Agnelli thinks is important are Roma’s years of being ordinary, of nicking in as one of Serie A’s highly-placed also-rans — they last won the title 20 seasons ago — and reaching the odd knockout round. Roma are useless in Europe. Most years they are eliminated by the first good team they play, including once in the qualifiers, when they were drawn against Porto and beaten 4-1 on aggregate. In the last 12 seasons, Roma have qualified only six times and made it beyond the round of 16 once. Arsenal removed them in 2008-09, Shakhtar Donetsk in 2010-11, Bayern Munich put seven past them in a group stage game in 2014-15, Real Madrid beat them 4-0 on aggregate in 2015-16 and Porto did for them at the first knockout stage last year.

So Roma’s sole meaningful season in the Champions League, since reaching the final in 1984, is that semi-final place against Liverpool in 2018, when they conceded five in the first leg. And this is why Atalanta do not deserve to be in the Champions League? For this great legacy of making up the numbers? Last season, Atalanta finished three points and two places above Roma, won two more matches, scored 11 more goals and conceded two fewer. They lead them by three points again this season, with a game in hand, and have beaten Roma home and away. Indeed, Roma have won a single game against Atalanta in 12 meetings dating back six seasons.

Why the hell should Roma get Atalanta’s European place? Atalanta travel to Valencia this week, leading 4-1 from the first leg. They do not need the patronising respect of Agnelli and his cabal of inferior intellects. They are earning it with each passing year the only way that matters — on results. Last season, they played Juventus three times — won one, drew two. That is what Agnelli wishes to stop — competition. This is not about protecting Roma’s right to be useless, it is Juventus that Agnelli truly fears are not good enough.

Sure, they win Serie A every year, which is why the league does badly in foreign markets, because who wants to watch that — but beyond? If Agnelli wants to talk contribution to European football, Juventus have no greater pedigree as rulers of it than Nottingham Forest. Two European crowns, the same as Brian Clough. That’s it for Italy’s greatest, richest club. Juventus haven’t won the Champions League this century or in its modern, 32-club format. There were 24 teams in the competition and only 16 in the group stage when Juventus last won in 1996. It was still the European Cup the time before that, in 1984-85.

Juventus had to overcome the mighty Ilves Tampere of Finland, Grasshoppers Zurich, Sparta Prague and Bordeaux before beating Liverpool in the final. That aside, their claim to fame is the most losing finals in Champions League and European Cup history — seven, including their last five on the spin. And while it is a far stronger contribution than the rank ordinariness of Roma in Europe, for a club of Juve’s stature it is greatly underwhelming.

The biggest club in Spain, Real Madrid, has 13 titles, Bayern Munich have five, Manchester United three — although Liverpool have six — Ajax four. Juventus are eclipsed by their equivalents in every European country and by AC Milan in their own, with seven. No wonder Agnelli wishes to lower the bar of achievement for an entitled few. It terrifies him to see Atalanta in his own country, or Leicester, Wolves and Sheffield United in this one, on the brink of breaking into his cosy little cartel.

He’s bought Cristiano Ronaldo and still can’t get the lucrative broadcast markets interested in Juventus the way they are in Premier League stragglers. And while Atalanta stuck four past Valencia last month, his own team lost to Lyon, currently the seventh placed team in France.

This is what Agnelli and the ECA want — the right to be lousy. The right to just turn up and claim the money. They don’t want to have to be good, to qualify, to rise above the very clubs at which they sneer so haughtily. Everton’s Carlo Ancelotti spoke this week of trying to take them into the Champions League — which he has won, as a player and manager, five times to Juventus’ two. But even if he performed that feat, Agnelli wants to deny entry.

Who would then invest in Everton, or any club outside a handful, when the glass ceiling has been so shamelessly, brazenly installed?

This is what Agnelli and his allies demand. They want the right to finish above Atalanta and Leicester even when they don’t, the right to be rewarded even when so plainly inferior. They want the right to kill dreams, to strangle competition. They are frightened little men with plans that would only make football dull and mediocre.

All the wealth ring-fenced for the few, the first day of the season a shrug because nothing can happen and certainly won’t. It is the opposite of what sport should be. We resist this now, or future generations will watch programmes about what football used to be like in the early 21st century — before Andrea Agnelli and his contemptible type killed our game stone dead.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Agnelli-self-serving-protectionist-snake.html
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,923
MARTIN SAMUEL COLUMN: Juventus chief Andrea Agnelli is a creeping, crawling, self-serving, protectionist snake. He is a man without a single cell of feeling for sport or sporting integrity. His plan will kill off football
  • Andrea Agnelli's proposed plan will destroy the Champions League and football
  • His stupidity would kill a sport that belongs to the working men and women
  • Agnelli and his allies are frightened little men with plans to make football dull

A series on Netflix this month will make clear the role of Scottish footballers in the formation of what is termed The English Game. Written by Julian Fellowes, creator of Downton Abbey,:lol: it will chart the rise of football in England, including the enormous contribution of what were known as the Scottish Professors. It was the influence of players imported from north of the border that made football the sport we recognise today.

England’s fledgling game was about dribbling, but Scotland’s players passed. There were seven of them in Preston’s Invincibles, while Liverpool fielded an entire team of Scots in 1892 and Lord Kinnaird played in nine FA Cup finals between 1873 and 1883, winning five of them. The debt English football owes to the first professionals from Scotland is incalculable.Doesn’t count for much these days, though, does it? Now Scotland are in the doldrums, this brilliant reimagining of the sport doesn’t amount to a place at the World Cup finals. Unquestionably, Scotland have been left behind. Others have taken the philosophy of the Scottish Professors on. And that’s it. Tough. That’s the point of sport. It’s a meritocracy.

Just last June will seem a lifetime away if Tottenham and Liverpool exit the Champions League this week. Their status as the 2019 finalists will be rightly irrelevant. Nothing burns through history quicker than the evolution of sporting competition. The game in Madrid on June 1 last year has about as much bearing on events in Leipzig and Liverpool this week as the matches that took place in the final decades of the 19th century.

What makes sport so endlessly compelling — the best reality television, because there truly is not even the germ of a script — can be found in the shiver of anticipation on the first day of the season. The grass freshly shorn, the lines brightly painted, the summer sun shining and anything possible. On August 8, 2015, Leicester walked out at the King Power Stadium to face Sunderland. Their fans had no clue they were about to watch the first game of that season’s champions. Had anyone suggested so, they would have thought them insane. Yet, technically, it was possible. Anything is possible. That is all you have to believe. And if it is not possible, sport is dead.

That Andrea Agnelli is the president of the European Clubs’ Association says all that needs to be known about the creeping, crawling, self-serving, protectionist snakes at the elite end of that organisation. He is a man without a single cell of feeling for sport or sporting integrity.

He has lucked out by birth into control of one of football’s great dynasties — Juventus. And from this position of enormous good fortune, he wants to destroy the greatest club competition in the world and football as it is known and loved. Not spoil, or harm, or even ruin. Destroy. If the type of structure Agnelli proposes came to pass, the Champions League as a competition of interest would be no more. Domestic football would be as good as finished. His greed, his stupidity, would kill a sport that belongs not to entitled children of trust funds and inheritance, but to the working men and women across Europe and beyond.

Our game, our fun — not his desperate revenue stream. Our sliver of pleasure, not his security blanket, because he has messed up the financial model of his own business in Serie A. Agnelli is a mediocre mind in a world increasingly full of them, so it stands to reason it is mediocrity he wishes to reward and enshrine.

Agnelli spoke at the Financial Times Business of Football Summit in London last week, when he came up with his plan to preserve bad football.

‘I have great respect for everything Atalanta are doing, but without international history and thanks to just one great season, they had direct access to the primary European club competition,’ said Agnelli. ‘Is that right or not? Then I think of Roma, who contributed in recent years to maintaining Italy’s ranking. They had one bad season and are out, with all the consequent damage to them financially. The point is how we balance the contribution to European football and the performance of a single year.’

In other words, the closed shop. That is what he wants for the Champions League. To seal it from meritocracy, the same handful of wealthy elite clubs playing the same repetitive fixtures year after year, regardless of their quality. Roma have been such a fixture in Europe’s premier club competition that they qualified for it once between 1955 and 2001. Yet their place should be preserved in perpetuity, at the expense of better, smaller clubs, because of a moment in time?

Why can’t Atalanta grow to be a more admirable force in Italian football than Roma have been for decades? They just need the chance and this freedom terrifies their supposed betters. It is a myth that the elite deserve anything they cannot earn for themselves, every year, starting anew. Roma’s contribution to European football is a myth, too. It is zilch. Their European honours list amounts to a competition UEFA don’t even count any more, the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in 1960-61. Newcastle have won a European trophy more recently.

So what Agnelli thinks is important are Roma’s years of being ordinary, of nicking in as one of Serie A’s highly-placed also-rans — they last won the title 20 seasons ago — and reaching the odd knockout round. Roma are useless in Europe. Most years they are eliminated by the first good team they play, including once in the qualifiers, when they were drawn against Porto and beaten 4-1 on aggregate. In the last 12 seasons, Roma have qualified only six times and made it beyond the round of 16 once. Arsenal removed them in 2008-09, Shakhtar Donetsk in 2010-11, Bayern Munich put seven past them in a group stage game in 2014-15, Real Madrid beat them 4-0 on aggregate in 2015-16 and Porto did for them at the first knockout stage last year.

So Roma’s sole meaningful season in the Champions League, since reaching the final in 1984, is that semi-final place against Liverpool in 2018, when they conceded five in the first leg. And this is why Atalanta do not deserve to be in the Champions League? For this great legacy of making up the numbers? Last season, Atalanta finished three points and two places above Roma, won two more matches, scored 11 more goals and conceded two fewer. They lead them by three points again this season, with a game in hand, and have beaten Roma home and away. Indeed, Roma have won a single game against Atalanta in 12 meetings dating back six seasons.

Why the hell should Roma get Atalanta’s European place? Atalanta travel to Valencia this week, leading 4-1 from the first leg. They do not need the patronising respect of Agnelli and his cabal of inferior intellects. They are earning it with each passing year the only way that matters — on results. Last season, they played Juventus three times — won one, drew two. That is what Agnelli wishes to stop — competition. This is not about protecting Roma’s right to be useless, it is Juventus that Agnelli truly fears are not good enough.

Sure, they win Serie A every year, which is why the league does badly in foreign markets, because who wants to watch that — but beyond? If Agnelli wants to talk contribution to European football, Juventus have no greater pedigree as rulers of it than Nottingham Forest. Two European crowns, the same as Brian Clough. That’s it for Italy’s greatest, richest club. Juventus haven’t won the Champions League this century or in its modern, 32-club format. There were 24 teams in the competition and only 16 in the group stage when Juventus last won in 1996. It was still the European Cup the time before that, in 1984-85.

Juventus had to overcome the mighty Ilves Tampere of Finland, Grasshoppers Zurich, Sparta Prague and Bordeaux before beating Liverpool in the final. That aside, their claim to fame is the most losing finals in Champions League and European Cup history — seven, including their last five on the spin. And while it is a far stronger contribution than the rank ordinariness of Roma in Europe, for a club of Juve’s stature it is greatly underwhelming.

The biggest club in Spain, Real Madrid, has 13 titles, Bayern Munich have five, Manchester United three — although Liverpool have six — Ajax four. Juventus are eclipsed by their equivalents in every European country and by AC Milan in their own, with seven. No wonder Agnelli wishes to lower the bar of achievement for an entitled few. It terrifies him to see Atalanta in his own country, or Leicester, Wolves and Sheffield United in this one, on the brink of breaking into his cosy little cartel.

He’s bought Cristiano Ronaldo and still can’t get the lucrative broadcast markets interested in Juventus the way they are in Premier League stragglers. And while Atalanta stuck four past Valencia last month, his own team lost to Lyon, currently the seventh placed team in France.

This is what Agnelli and the ECA want — the right to be lousy. The right to just turn up and claim the money. They don’t want to have to be good, to qualify, to rise above the very clubs at which they sneer so haughtily. Everton’s Carlo Ancelotti spoke this week of trying to take them into the Champions League — which he has won, as a player and manager, five times to Juventus’ two. But even if he performed that feat, Agnelli wants to deny entry.

Who would then invest in Everton, or any club outside a handful, when the glass ceiling has been so shamelessly, brazenly installed?

This is what Agnelli and his allies demand. They want the right to finish above Atalanta and Leicester even when they don’t, the right to be rewarded even when so plainly inferior. They want the right to kill dreams, to strangle competition. They are frightened little men with plans that would only make football dull and mediocre.

All the wealth ring-fenced for the few, the first day of the season a shrug because nothing can happen and certainly won’t. It is the opposite of what sport should be. We resist this now, or future generations will watch programmes about what football used to be like in the early 21st century — before Andrea Agnelli and his contemptible type killed our game stone dead.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Agnelli-self-serving-protectionist-snake.html
AA deserves this tbh.
 

tosh_rose

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2010
1,465
AA deserves this tbh.
Yeah, he most certainly doesnt. A complete random nobody doesnt get to publicly call the President of ECA and Juventus a "a creeping, crawling, self-serving, protectionist snake. He is a man without a single cell of feeling for sport or sporting integrity." ; "greedy..., stupid..., mediocre mind..., frightened little man"...etc " Not to mention that the moron is not only publicly insulting another person, he is also insulting another club(s), institutions/companies - saying "Roma are useless" and "Their honours dont even count anymore" is something that a grumpy, emotional retarded child would say in a facebook/forum heated argument with other clueless children in a topic that neither of them understand completely, a grown man should know better, this crossess a lot of lines and if he was even slightly relevant or famous he would have faced the consequences.

You cant even call the "article" biased because there`s just too much twisting words and facts and terribly exagerated understanding of what Agnelli actually said. Destroy the competition, domestic football would be finished, closed shop, stop competition, Juve no greater contribution than N.Forrest, to kill the game stone dead...?!? Wtf, this is what a random simpleton gets from Andrea`s few quotes, like this is how someone interpretes and understands the Roma/Atalanta refference?!

FFS, the man just asked some very good questions in order to start a discussion, its been already said here - He asks who should benefit by qualifying directly into the Group stages of CL - smaller clubs from the top leagues or bigger clubs from the second best leagues? Its a legitimate question and there are legitimate pros and cons for either option, both seem fair and both seem kinda unfair, whether you are an Atalanta or an Ajax.

What is also important to note is that Andrea was talking about going straight into the groups vs starting from the qualification rounds, not preventing a smaller club from playing in the CL or stopping/banning the smaller club from participating in the CL when that small club qualifies for the competition. Currently all 4 top leagues have all their 4 teams in group stages, while the Netherland champion starts in Round 3 of qualifications and their runner-up in R2, also Russia has two clubs directly in the Groups with the champion seeded in Pool 1 of the draw. Nothing agains Russia, but how is that fair exactly? For years the weakest CL group is the one with the Russian team in seed 1, its deserved for their champion to get straight into the groups, but to be placed amongst the England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France champions is ridiculous. CL winner, EL winner and top 5 champions in seed 1, the one with the highest coef after them closes seed 1, similar to how it was not that long ago.

Current format and access list shows that there is a possibility that of all 32 teams in Group Stages only 11 of them can be actual champions in their respective countries, so that`s not very Champion League-ish. A fair format imo would be to grant all nations in top 16 of European rankings that their champion gets a place in the groups, and make the 4th place in top leagues to be a CL playoff quota, 3rd in France and 2nd in Russia - playoff quota and done. That way at least half of the teams in GS would be champions, and I would like the CL to has more champions along with the usual top dogs and powerhouses, but what UEFA/ECA/Club Presidents want is what matters here and its obvious that they want to reform and reshape something, we`ll wait and see what and how...
 

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