Andrea "Il Bruco Brutto" Agnelli (30 Viewers)

Jun 16, 2020
10,965
- of course it's about money, and relegation doesn't protect investments at all.
- uefa prolly wasn't open to a tiered competition, just look at the new revolutionary cl format. group stage is boring, people started to lose interest in it years before corona.
- fairy tales are for romantic boomers like us. the famous 18-49 key demographic group wants something new, and the sooner football reacts, the better it can survive.

i don't like many elements of the super league, but we'll get used to it. we didn't like the group stage at first. we didn't like 2nd to 4th teams' participations at first. people don't like changes, we simply want to stay in our comfort zone. i get it, it's fine, but look at the revenues, current system hit the ceiling and isn't sustainable. and it's clear that uefa protected its own interests, it wasn't a good partner in the changes.

let's evaluate the idea in 5 years, not now when it didn't even start.
Does it feel like a relief for you to? I mean, mostly from the financial point of view.

After another shitty tv deal, basically no incomes from transfers, no scudetto, failed CL campaign, the aggressive approach to lower the wages bill last year, the pandemic etc. We really need a financial boost, I was afraid that we’d be obligated to sell some big names this summer. Instead of that, we’re probably able to build
 

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s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
28,457
Does it feel like a relief for you to? I mean, mostly from the financial point of view.

After another shitty tv deal, basically no incomes from transfers, no scudetto, failed CL campaign, the aggressive approach to lower the wages bill last year, the pandemic etc. We really need a financial boost, I was afraid that we’d be obligated to sell some big names this summer. Instead of that, we’re probably able to build
it's not about juventus, it's not about the current situation. as i already said a couple of times, bigger clubs wanted a bigger slice of the champions league cake since the early '90s, so it's kinda part of a natural progress. uefa could have been part of it, but they've been mismanaged. they didn't listen, top clubs decided to move away from uefa. it's not about killing small clubs, i don't see it as an evil capitalist move, it's just a management choice. uefa had a monopoly on organizing top football, and top football had enough of them.

the current process started years ago, when juve was doing fine. you can't prepare such a competition in two months. let's not go full siavoush fallahi (or whatever the name of that interista idiot is), it has nothing to do with pirlo, losing the league title and stuff. this has been in the works for years, and the whole fight for control started decades ago. it's much bigger than juventus too.

as for juventus, we'd be fine with the current format too. but sl offers more on the long run, both in finances and exposure.
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
6,902
Agnelli: 'What changes? We have been winning for 80 years'

Juventus patron Andrea Agnelli said nothing changes with the Super League. ‘We have been winning for 80 years’.
The clubs discussed the breakaway Super League in an extraordinary Assembly with the Lega Serie A last night and the Juventus patron was questioned by the other clubs.
La Repubblica reports the great tension was especially aimed at the Bianconeri President, who provoked a reaction with his response to the concern of the other clubs.

“With €350m a year guaranteed, the Scudetto will always be won by Juventus, Milan and Inter,” the newspaper reports the owners and directors pointed out during the conference call.
The Juventus patron then replied: “But it has been like this for 80 years, I believe.”
A response that reportedly provoked the other Presidents into a rage, meanwhile the three teams insisted they wanted to remain in Serie A.
The report reveals the League has acknowledged that it doesn’t have the legal possibility or the convenience to remove the three rebels.
But the FIGC could, in agreement with the UEFA, and thus a long battle in court is expected. It would also involve the issue of TV rights.
 

Salvo

J
Moderator
Dec 17, 2007
61,319
Agnelli: 'What changes? We have been winning for 80 years'

Juventus patron Andrea Agnelli said nothing changes with the Super League. ‘We have been winning for 80 years’.
The clubs discussed the breakaway Super League in an extraordinary Assembly with the Lega Serie A last night and the Juventus patron was questioned by the other clubs.
La Repubblica reports the great tension was especially aimed at the Bianconeri President, who provoked a reaction with his response to the concern of the other clubs.

“With €350m a year guaranteed, the Scudetto will always be won by Juventus, Milan and Inter,” the newspaper reports the owners and directors pointed out during the conference call.
The Juventus patron then replied: “But it has been like this for 80 years, I believe.”
A response that reportedly provoked the other Presidents into a rage, meanwhile the three teams insisted they wanted to remain in Serie A.
The report reveals the League has acknowledged that it doesn’t have the legal possibility or the convenience to remove the three rebels.
But the FIGC could, in agreement with the UEFA, and thus a long battle in court is expected. It would also involve the issue of TV rights.
we aren't going to be able to buy any players from serie a now
 

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
28,457
horncastle on agnelli:

European Super League founder Andrea Agnelli: visionary or out of touch?

Andrea-Agnelli-Juventus-president-1024x683.jpg

By James Horncastle 6h ago
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Sergio Marchionne, the late and great former CEO of Fiat Chrysler, used to say: “In big business, who commands is alone.” Juventus’ president Andrea Agnelli will be aware of that line. His father Umberto appointed Marchionne to turn the car giant around in 2003 and not only did he save it, but he also transformed Fiat’s fortunes and took the business into a whole new era.
Agnelli presumably hopes to do the same with the football industry. For a long time, it felt like he was the only one who thought the format and governance of European football needed a change. He has often cut a solitary figure while advocating for reform of the sport over the last five years. But evidently, the public silence of his peers did not reflect isolation in private.
As chairman of the European Club Association (ECA), a position he resigned from on Sunday night, Agnelli has been the public face and lightning rod for a challenge to the football pyramid at a time when likeminded owners felt more comfortable staying in the shadows and keeping their counsel while pushing for a reorganisation of that now feels like a daring and provocative revolution.

What’s surprising is Agnelli is not a football parvenu like some of the other investors behind clubs in the Super League. Juventus has been in the Agnelli family’s hands for almost 100 years. The centenary of their involvement with the Old Lady comes in 2023. Agnelli grew up around the club. Look back through the footage of Juventus’ games’ in the 1990s and you’ll catch a glimpse of him in his early 20s hanging around the team. He’s woven into the fabric of the club and should know football inside out.
As a fan, some would argue he should know better. After all, Agnelli is not an absentee administrator out of touch with the club he runs or the sport he works in. He’s in the office every day and followed in his father’s footsteps in becoming president. Football has been his calling. You might say it has been the making of him.
As was the case with Umberto he is not the scion of the family. Andrea’s uncle Gianni was the most prominent Agnelli and while he carries the famous name, it’s his cousin John Elkann who chairs Exor, the family holding company with assets worth €172.6 billion. Compared with Ferrari and the recently founded Stellantis — a cross-border merger between Fiat and the PSA Group, the French car manufacturer behind Peugeot and Citreon — Juventus are by no means the biggest asset on Exor’s portfolio. To give an example, Ferrari brought in revenues of €3.7 billion in 2019. By the same token, Juventus raised a little over €600 million. Obviously, in brand terms, there is immense cultural capital and sentimental significance tied up in owning and running one of the biggest clubs in the most followed sport in the world.
As the fourth Agnelli to serve as president of Juventus, Andrea is honouring a family tradition. The role he performs for Elkann and Exor, however, isn’t too dissimilar to what Ed Woodward does for the Glazers at Manchester United or Marina Granovskaia for Roman Abramovich at Chelsea. It’s a duty he has carried out to great effect.
For all the schadenfreude apportioned to Agnelli since a remark he made about Atalanta went viral, the work he has done in re-establishing his club as a force again is extraordinary, even taking into account their recent embarrassing Champions League exits at the hands of Ajax and Porto.
People forget what a state Juventus were in before he ascended to the presidency in 2010. The Calciopoli match-fixing scandal four years earlier had culminated in the first and only relegation in the club’s history. The Old Lady had to relinquish her place on the podium of the Deloitte Football Money League and she hasn’t been back since. At the time, the revenue Juventus were making contracted from €251.2 million to €145.2 million, with broadcast and commercial contracts having to undergo renegotiation after an infamous demotion. Players such as Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Lilian Thuram, Ballon d’Or winner Fabio Cannavaro, Patrick Vieira and Gianluca Zambrotta left.
Juventus did instantly bounce back up with Gianluigi Buffon, Alessandro Del Piero, Giorgio Chiellini and Pavel Nedved still in their ranks, but glory was not instantly restored: the brand was hurt and economic cost severe. The club missed out on the Champions League four times in six seasons at a time when regular involvement in that competition was becoming more lucrative than ever.
The gap between Juventus and their continental peers widened and appeared set in stone. It has been something Agnelli has been working to bridge ever since he became president in 2010. Whatever you make of him, the success of the past nine years is astonishing and should not be taken for granted. After all, Agnelli inherited a team that finished seventh and it was no quick fix. A year later they were exactly where he found them. Seventh again. His first managerial appointment Gigi Delneri did not work out and signings like Milos Krasic and Jorge Martinez (remember them?) flopped.
Juventus couldn’t appeal to top players — Antonio Di Natale turned them down. Agnelli ended up taking a chance on former captain Antonio Conte, who had repeated the trick of getting a side from Serie B promoted after his one and only spell managing in the top flight, with Atalanta, ended with his dismissal just three months in. Conte’s arrival, the signing of Andrea Pirlo from AC Milan on a free transfer, and the inauguration of their new Allianz Stadium unexpectedly restored Juventus to the top of the Italian game where they have been for almost a decade. At times they have made it look easy when easy it ain’t, as the last couple of seasons demonstrate.
The position of dominance Juventus established for themselves was earned. They capitalised on the Milan clubs entering long periods of decline, started to go deep in the Champions League when Serie A only had a couple of automatic places and made hardly any mistakes. An undefeated season, a 102-point campaign, a first Coppa Italia in two decades, two Champions League finals in four years, a series of tricky rebuilds and the transformation of the club from stepping stone for Paul Pogba to a destination for Cristiano Ronaldo. Juventus became relevant and credible again under Agnelli. For all the cachet of his name, it’s this record that gave his opinion weight and secured him more influence within the game.
Juventus’ revenues climbed almost 200 per cent with him at the helm but they were still around half what Barcelona were making in 2018-19. Reaching those Champions League finals in Berlin in 2015 and Cardiff in 2017 where Lionel Messi, Neymar and Luis Suarez then Ronaldo, Gareth Bale and Karim Benzema vanquished them was an overachievement. Juventus had to fight tooth and nail to stay in the Deloitte Money League top 10.
In the past, Agnelli has said Juventus straddle the first- and second-class carriages of European football’s bullet train. They do not have Premier League TV contracts or state wealth behind them. Agnelli has had to take risks and innovate. The logo change, a pivot to a lifestyle and entertainment brand and the signing of one of the most famous people in the world who just so happens to have won the Ballon d’Or five times was the next phase of Juventus’ growth strategy. “We’ve got to become more mainstream, more pop,” Agnelli said at the launch of the new crest.
“We have new targets who are not your classic football fan: millennials, women and kids. We have to ask ourselves what is the little girl in Shanghai and the millennial in Mexico City thinking?” This has guided his approach to the reform of European football too. Juventus’ motto Live Ahead is evocative of Agnelli’s constant preoccupation with the future and what Generation Z are interested in. With so many things competing for their attention, how can you capture their imagination? Is it football as we know it? Evidently, he doesn’t think so. Is it the same teams playing over and over again ad nauseam with no jeopardy? Apparently.
“What will football be like in 2040?” Agnelli asked in an op-ed published at the start of the year. Jack Welch, the former CEO of General Electric, liked to say “change before you have to”. It’s a line Agnelli is particularly fond of and one he applies to football. He was advocating for the sport to reform itself even before COVID-19 hit. But the pandemic has forced an acceleration. Rather than change before you have to, the time to change is seemingly now upon the clubs at the top of the game. They can’t afford to wait any longer.
For all the discourse about greed and the rich getting richer, the 12 signatories to the Super League lost £1.2 billion before player sales last season. The founders’ fee offers much-needed liquidity at a time of crisis and the clubs now have more control over their own destinies. Let’s see what they do with it because from now on they’re on their own. The title of the article that Agnelli wrote — “how to govern the best show on earth” — is key to understanding the events of the last few days. It underlines how important governance and decision-making power is to the elite.
“The organisers/regulators are neither the protagonists (the players) or the investors (the owners),” Agnelli wrote for online Italian newspaper Linkiesta. “But they manage the game, cash the money and make decisions. When growth is constant the structural problems are hidden, when disruption happens, change is unavoidable.” That change has now happened. But is it the change fans really want to see? Judging by the hostile reaction, the answer is an emphatic “no”.
Agnelli’s uncle, Gianni, used to say: “I love the future and I like young people. My life has always been a bet on the future.” His nephew and the other clubs involved in the Super League are taking a huge gamble. Whether it pays off remains to be seen.
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
6,902
"The League has acknowledged that it doesn’t have the legal possibility to remove the three rebels."

Oh really? I'm shocked :shocked:
The only thing they can do is threaten them with lawsuits because of the TV deal. But that's it.
The CL TV deal will have to be renegotiated if they leave.
Also they are not the ones who want to leave Seria A so I doubt they can actually win if they want to ask for damages in Italy.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
5,639
Agnelli: 'What changes? We have been winning for 80 years'

Juventus patron Andrea Agnelli said nothing changes with the Super League. ‘We have been winning for 80 years’.
The clubs discussed the breakaway Super League in an extraordinary Assembly with the Lega Serie A last night and the Juventus patron was questioned by the other clubs.
La Repubblica reports the great tension was especially aimed at the Bianconeri President, who provoked a reaction with his response to the concern of the other clubs.

“With €350m a year guaranteed, the Scudetto will always be won by Juventus, Milan and Inter,” the newspaper reports the owners and directors pointed out during the conference call.
The Juventus patron then replied: “But it has been like this for 80 years, I believe.”
A response that reportedly provoked the other Presidents into a rage, meanwhile the three teams insisted they wanted to remain in Serie A.
The report reveals the League has acknowledged that it doesn’t have the legal possibility or the convenience to remove the three rebels.
But the FIGC could, in agreement with the UEFA, and thus a long battle in court is expected. It would also involve the issue of TV rights.
:lol:
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,854
I agree to all of the above. I don't even watch football outside Juve and azzurri. If we play more high-profile opponents, I get to watch more high-profile games. Sounds good to me. Plus I want Juve to get bigger and richer anyway
I want :J: to become as big as NY Yankees, I want to see merch with :J: on it everywhere I look and I want us to nod at each orher in approval.
 

radekas

( ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)
Aug 26, 2009
19,333
Agnelli: 'What changes? We have been winning for 80 years'

Juventus patron Andrea Agnelli said nothing changes with the Super League. ‘We have been winning for 80 years’.
The clubs discussed the breakaway Super League in an extraordinary Assembly with the Lega Serie A last night and the Juventus patron was questioned by the other clubs.
La Repubblica reports the great tension was especially aimed at the Bianconeri President, who provoked a reaction with his response to the concern of the other clubs.

“With €350m a year guaranteed, the Scudetto will always be won by Juventus, Milan and Inter,” the newspaper reports the owners and directors pointed out during the conference call.
The Juventus patron then replied: “But it has been like this for 80 years, I believe.”
A response that reportedly provoked the other Presidents into a rage, meanwhile the three teams insisted they wanted to remain in Serie A.
The report reveals the League has acknowledged that it doesn’t have the legal possibility or the convenience to remove the three rebels.
But the FIGC could, in agreement with the UEFA, and thus a long battle in court is expected. It would also involve the issue of TV rights.
Analysis stolen from a Polish site. Non big 3 Scudetti:

41/42: Roma
42-49 (43-45 no champion): Toro
55/56: Viola
63/64: Bologna
68/69: Viola
69/70: Cagliari
73/74: Lazio
75/76: Toro
82/83: Roma
84/85: Hellas
86/87: Napoli
89/90: Napoli
90/91: Sampa
99/00: Lazio
00/01: Roma

In general 19 Championships won by someone else. In the last 20 years it's a big 0. In 30 years 2. So yeah all the other Serie A teams are crying about something that's happening since forever.
 

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